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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

about 'umarried' mothers?

290 replies

Thurlow · 03/05/2014 11:55

I probably am being. I just want a rant. I have seen so many comments on MN over the past few months about unmarried mothers where the assumption is that you are only unmarried because one of you, usually the man, is a non-committal waste of space, and that he has no right to share a name with any DC because he hasn't bothered to put a ring on it.

Hmm

Yes, it's only words on screen, but I'm starting to feel an overwhelming belief out there that unmarried couples are less committed than married couples. As someone in a very long-term relationship who made the joint decision not to marry as it wasn't for us, and who - sin of sins - gave their DC their father's surname, it just leaves me with the impression that I am being judged by most people as less committed. It's not a cheerful impression to have.

This isn't a rant against marriage - it just wasn't for us as a couple. And it's not a debate about marriage because I know that legally it brings so much protection, which is not relevant to our current situation.

I'm just getting royally narked with all the 'if you like it you should have put a ring on it' comments I've seen lately.

And breathe...

OP posts:
PuppyMonkey · 03/05/2014 18:00

Have been happily unmarried to DP for 20 years now. Most people in RL assume we are married until we tell them. When they find out, they go "oh right" and move on. Never had any negative comments.

And to the pp who thinks marriage is "disrespected" now, well, it's not something I respect OR disrespect really. I don't see it as automatically meaning a couple is more committed to each other just because they've repeated some vows out loud.

TheNewSofa · 03/05/2014 18:05

Im a great believer in marriage. I do think your in a comitted relationship if you have comitted yourself to marriage.

When i got married, it made me feel more secure.

I have a toddler, and it was really important to me to have a wedding ring on whilst pregnant.

I do find that unmarried couples tend to break up alot more over silly things that married couples.

I have quite old fashioned values really.

TheNewSofa · 03/05/2014 18:06

Committed*

really1234 · 03/05/2014 18:06

I just don't get why you wouldn't get married if you really are that committed??

TheNewSofa · 03/05/2014 18:08

Marriage seals the relationship imo

Retropear · 03/05/2014 18:12

The divorce rates don't agree with you though.

22 years happily unmarried with 3dc here.

tabulahrasa · 03/05/2014 18:13

"The reason is that if you break up and the children's father turns nasty - say he won't pay child support/you end up despising him /you never see him again, you have a different name to your children, no adult in the house has that name, you can't get it changed without his consent. Why I think a mother would feel differently if she also had the surname of this despised theoretical feckless ex-partner I don't know, but that's how I imagine I would feel."

But why would having a feckless ex-husband be better than having a feckless ex-partner?

"It can also make it impossible to have a holiday abroad if he refuses to sign a permission letter."

That's no different if you're divorced.

fascicle · 03/05/2014 18:26

oohdaddypig
fascicle I didn't think it was unpleasant. Just based on the sad reality that all couples, married or not, break up and it's often nasty.

BalloonSlayer is advising that women safeguard themselves against possible issues caused by their male partners in the event of a split (i.e. in case they turn out to be bastards and make life difficult, which I'm not disputing can happen, as per Aspiring's case). But advising unmarried women not to give their children the father's surname gives no allowance for anything other than the male partner behaving badly and the female being anything other than the wronged party. It would be interesting to know how BalloonSlayer would advise same sex couples, with different surnames, who have children.

Aspiringhuman · 03/05/2014 18:28

I was referring to the different surname tab it makes it more obvious to passport control. I know it applies if you're married, I was and am not actually allowed to cross the county border with dd.

Simplesusan · 03/05/2014 18:48

I haven't come across it tbh.

Frankly I don't give a monkeys whether someone is married or not.

I am a single parent ( though still legally married) and I haven't had one nasty comment, although I have been married so weather that effects people's view I don't know.

Original poster
Thurlow · 03/05/2014 19:22

We haven't got married because we don't want to, really.

That's exactly the kind of comment I meant.

OP posts:
GoshAnneGorilla · 03/05/2014 19:40

Pomme - I'm a bit baffled by your comment about people waiting for a proposal before they start a family. Each to their own, but I would never have dreamt of starting a family before I was married.

I do think before you have childten with someone you should make very sure you both feel committed to each other, whether you're married or not.

bakingaddict · 03/05/2014 19:49

I'm married but don't particularly see marriage as a big sign of love and commitment. To me marriage is really the legally joining together of two parties and setting out what remedies each party might expect in law if the contract is dissolved by divorce. This is simply why I chose to be married

You can still love and be emotionally committed to some-one without necessarily getting married but I like the idea of having some legal protection if it all goes pear-shaped but that's just me, what other people decide to do is up to them

Joysmum · 03/05/2014 19:50

*However you feel about your partner, the fact is you are less committed if you are not married. All the legal arrangements you have made could be very easily unmade if either of you chose, without the knowledge or consent of the other party.

If you are married then you can't just change your mind and your will - your spouse has rights. When you get married you are saying that you are willing to give up the right to be responsible only for yourself and are taking on legal responsibility for your partner too. It has ramifications for debt as well as benefits. That is more of a commitment than living together.*

That's exactly right.

Also what about pensions and inheritance tax?

TheRealAmandaClarke · 03/05/2014 19:59

This is very interesting.
I do accept that some ppl don't "believe in" marriage, yet are in committed relationships.
I also accept that being married doesn't guarantee protection against ones spouse being a shit. (my own parents are divorced, so i know there are no guarantees in this area)
But I still find it hard to understand why ppl who are committed to each other and have dcs, or wish to, don't get married.
Personally,I didn't want to have children with someone unless he demonstrated a commitment to me. But I guess that's all a bit outdated now.

alemci · 03/05/2014 20:02

totally agree with sofa on this. I am protected financially.

I do think it makes it easier for the men to go if they are not married to the dcs mother.

I would rather my dc were legitimate however outmoded that sounds.

pommedeterre · 03/05/2014 20:09

Why baffled? I obviously don't agree with you!

sonlypuppyfat · 03/05/2014 20:13

My dad told me a story about she was, in her words a bastard. She was so ashamed her mum worked in a country house and my grandma was the result of a fumble with the householders son. I'm sure she would be happy to know there's was no stigma about it now.

kungfupannda · 03/05/2014 20:13

I always find it a bit odd that marriage is somehow seen as the default position - that you're opting out of the norm, in some way, if you choose not to do it.

Getting married involves taking positive action to change your status. It involves some element of planning and effort, even if it's the bare minimum.

For me, not getting married is the default. It's the state that any couple are in, unless they actively decide they want to change it.

If marriage was somehow bestowed on people automatically - e.g. if you have a child together, you're automatically married - I suspect a lot of people who are currently unmarried, wouldn't bother unmarrying themselves! You'd probably get unmarried couples head-tilting at married friends and saying 'But why would you not just do it? It's just a piece of paper.'

It's just not something that's really on my radar. It's not something that I consider morally important in any way, and it's not something that has any legal implications that we don't have sewn up anyway.

So, all that being the case, there's absolutely no motivation for me to get off my backside and do something about my unmarried state.

The question 'why wouldn't you do it?' presupposes that it has some impact or importance in someone's life. It has no importance to me or DP so we haven't done it. If there's some drastic legal change that can't be sorted through financial arrangements, then we may reconsider.

I suppose the people asking the question are people for whom it has some importance or relevance, so of course they're going to be coming at it from that point of view. If they're talking to someone for whom it's just not remotely relevant, they're never really going to get why the other person doesn't get it, if that makes any sense!

scottishmummy · 03/05/2014 20:23

Youre annoyed others judge your relationship status?so what?if youre happy its no biggie
Yes its a mn perennial that unmarried=uncommitted,or guy is stringing woman along
Ive genuinely never felt impacted by mn opinion.strangers bumping gums.words on screen

Retropear · 03/05/2014 20:37

The real you're assuming the woman wants to be married.Hmm.

Why is the assumption still re unmarried couples that the woman desperately wants to frogmarch her reluctant partner down the aisle.

Oh and you can be financially secure unmarried too you know.

Original poster
Thurlow · 03/05/2014 20:56

Pensions signed over to each other. Inheritance tax currently not an issue as our estate is.below the threshold.

If.anything, half the.comments on this thread prove my point!

OP posts:
Original poster
Thurlow · 03/05/2014 20:58

The other half of the comments are very welcome and are making me feel much calmer about this!

OP posts:
MoominAndMiniMoom · 03/05/2014 20:58

I'm in a committed relationship, but not married and no intention of doing it for at least four or five years. The way I see it, I rushed into a committed relationship and I rushed into having a baby (albeit unintentionally). I want to leave at least one major life event until I'm in my twenties Hmm

We're in the process of making our wills, we rent a house together and have joint accounts, we're raising a baby together who has both of our surnames. I have no intention of leaving him, and as far as I know he isn't stringing me along. I can afford a wedding right now, but not the one I want. But really, if people have nothing better to do than judge me for that, I'll leave them to it Grin

Original poster
Thurlow · 03/05/2014 21:00

Real, there are other ways to demonstrate commitment as well as a marriage ceremony. Why would.you think that is the.only thing that signals commitment?

OP posts:
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