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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

about 'umarried' mothers?

290 replies

Thurlow · 03/05/2014 11:55

I probably am being. I just want a rant. I have seen so many comments on MN over the past few months about unmarried mothers where the assumption is that you are only unmarried because one of you, usually the man, is a non-committal waste of space, and that he has no right to share a name with any DC because he hasn't bothered to put a ring on it.

Hmm

Yes, it's only words on screen, but I'm starting to feel an overwhelming belief out there that unmarried couples are less committed than married couples. As someone in a very long-term relationship who made the joint decision not to marry as it wasn't for us, and who - sin of sins - gave their DC their father's surname, it just leaves me with the impression that I am being judged by most people as less committed. It's not a cheerful impression to have.

This isn't a rant against marriage - it just wasn't for us as a couple. And it's not a debate about marriage because I know that legally it brings so much protection, which is not relevant to our current situation.

I'm just getting royally narked with all the 'if you like it you should have put a ring on it' comments I've seen lately.

And breathe...

OP posts:
Pipbin · 03/05/2014 13:31

I have just skimmed the thread. I am married but we have no DC. We could get divorced and never see each other again. If we had a child together but were not married there would always be a link.

IMHO having children together is a much more lasting tie than marriage.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 03/05/2014 13:33

I know there are many divorces; marriages have never been easier to get out of because you need hardly wait... Don't like your husband/wife anymore? Move out or make them do it. Sort out the childcare and paying for them and that's that. There's no stigma anymore. I don't think marriage is ever going to be phased out however much it might be on the decline.

I'm more concerned about the number of women that have children with men who are neither committed to them nor the child(ren). I know the stock response is that this can happen to anybody but I do challenge that because whether you marry somebody or not, really getting to know them before having children with them really does tip the odds in the child's favour.

Burren · 03/05/2014 13:35

Thurlow, I think that many of those threads exist on Mn in the first place because the poster wants to get married, and it's not happening for whatever reason, so it's not 'neutral'.

Of course you're not unreasonable not to marry, as long as you have - as you clearly have - done all the necessary legal stuff. I only married my partner of 20 years because I was convinced I was going to die giving birth, and didn't want him to have to go to court to prove he was our child's father. We married about a week before I was due. If I'd known I would end up with a peaceful ELCS, I wouldn't have got married at all. We didn't tell anyone for months, have only the vaguest idea of our wedding anniversary, and if someone asks me am I married, I often forget and say no. It says nothing about our commitment and happiness.

Istareatthesky · 03/05/2014 13:35

Never come across this to be honest. 20 years with my partner, kids etc. I tell people we are going steady Grin

Clint88 · 03/05/2014 13:42

It's a lot more than quoted up thread for a civil wedding in the registry office here, about £300 minimum. So in fact some people might have to save up.

Also don't get what's 'funny' about weddings post-kids, and I'd rather buy something useful for a family than the choice of cocktails/flight upgrades/fancy headphones on the last wedding list we got...

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 03/05/2014 13:43

I know on a chatboard everybody wants to know everything about everything but, does anybody ever really ask or comment on anybody else's arrangements in RL? I've never come across it but if I did, they'd be getting an enigmatic smile and nothing more. If they were rude enough to push for an answer they'd be told to mind their own business.

GoshAnneGorilla · 03/05/2014 13:44

Chiming in to agree with those who say that the most important thing is to know where you stand legally.

As clued-up as everyone seems to be here, there are an awful lot of myths around the idea of being a "common-law" wife.

However I do think people in this country are too hung up in the idea that getting married has to be expensive, plus there's all these OTT expectations of what a wedding should be.

This, I think leads to a lot of women who are unmarried because they think they can't afford it and they also can't afford to sort out any legal alternatives either.

Tbh, I think the rise in people having long term relationships but not marrying has worked out far better for men, then it has for women.

Catmint · 03/05/2014 13:54

DP and me have been together 16 years, have a DD who is 7.

I can't think of anything that demonstrates our commitment to each other more than parenting our daughter together.

PostHocErgoPropterHoc · 03/05/2014 13:55

This topic makes me clench, as it makes me remember a conversation with a fairly new acquaintance in which I mentioned I was approximately 6 weeks pregnant when I got married. She asked me if we'd got married because I was pregnant. I said, 'Well yeah, cos you definitely have to get married if you're pregnant', with what I thought was obvious sarcasm, given there were two other women in the conversation who weren't married and had kids. It was years later that I found out she'd taken me at face value and thought I'd rushed a wedding through in the two weeks I'd since I'd taken the test, just so that I wasn't unmarried and pregnant!

Louise1956 · 03/05/2014 14:04

well, i suppose what people really mean when they talk about 'unmarried' mothers, is lone mothers whose children's fathers aren't around. I can still remember when being unmarried and prgenant was considered cause for concern - I remember an episode of The Archers in the mid 60s which created quite a stir when one of the young female unmarried characters announced she was pregnant. And i remember ITV were thought to be pretty daring in the late 70s when they did a comedy series about an unmarried mother called 'Miss Jones and Son'. People living together and having children without being married did happen, of course, but it wasn't nearly as common as it is now. I think 'unmarried' to many people probably still means the lone single mother, rather than someone in a stable realtionship.

Original poster
Thurlow · 03/05/2014 14:19

It's true, there are a lot of threads where posters want to be married and their partner isn't listening to them, and that is very different.

Of course, while MN is "real" it is still reflective of people's opinions. I find it disheartening to know people secretly think what soverylucky and happymuofone say, that people who have decided not to get married are somehow less committed or have done it with an idea that it is easier to walk away from a relationship.

I do mostly shrug it off but sometimes it feels harder to do that, especially when people start pressing for the reasons why. There aren't many ways to explain how we feel without sounding like we are criticising everyone else who is married. I've had this more with close friends, actually. And I know they are well meaning. When I told them I was pg there was a lot of "but you'll get married now, won't you?" and a lot of poorly hidden disbelief that we still weren't going to get married.

Maybe it just gets tiring because I don't know anyone else in their 30s, in a l/t relationship, with children, who isn't married.

OP posts:
Infinity8 · 03/05/2014 15:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BearsInMotion · 03/05/2014 15:26

I do know where you're coming from. I simply don't see the point of marriage? DP and I are committed to each other, pensions are sorted, wills are sorted, we don't have a mortgage yet but when we do it will be joint. I have no religion, I hate being the centre of attention, I honestly see no benefit whatsoever to being married. It's hard to explain that as a reason, but for me it is closely tied to religion, which I have no need for, a big party, which I wouldn't enjoy, and a lifelong commitment to my partner, which I already have in DD. So why go to the expense?

BalloonSlayer · 03/05/2014 16:23

In what way is it unwise to give a child its father's surname if you're unmarried?

It was me who said unwise, so I guess I had better answer Grin

The reason is that if you break up and the children's father turns nasty - say he won't pay child support/you end up despising him /you never see him again, you have a different name to your children, no adult in the house has that name, you can't get it changed without his consent. Why I think a mother would feel differently if she also had the surname of this despised theoretical feckless ex-partner I don't know, but that's how I imagine I would feel.

You get quite a few posts on here from women who want to change their DCs names to theirs because of the above scenario.

TillyTellTale · 03/05/2014 16:33

Clint88

Really? I double-checked with the national government guide, first.

Round here, I had a registry office marriage. I could've spent more than that, if I'd wanted a Saturday and one of refurbished/naice rooms, but we just wanted the piece of paper.

sarinka · 03/05/2014 16:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Aspiringhuman · 03/05/2014 16:52

It can also make it impossible to have a holiday abroad if he refuses to sign a permission letter.

My ex's family (slightly different as we had been married) told dd aged 3 at the time that she shouldn't shouldn't listen to me or eat the food I cooked because I wasn't proper family as I had a different name. They also used me having a different name as part of the list of reasons why I should lose custody and be denied contact with dd though admittedly it was one of the less offensive reasons on their list. They called the school to stop me collecting dd, evidence being my name ending up with police being involved. Called my LL at the time and tried to get me evicted for breach of tenancy for having a "non-related" individual living with me.

OurMiracle1106 · 03/05/2014 17:01

My parents were never married to each other (my dad was married but I don't know the full story) what I can say is they were together for 12 years my mum nursed him through cancer until he went into a hospice and stayed faithful to him until she passed last year, 23 years after he passed.

I would never get married again (im only 25 but now divorced. I was married 6years) but that doesn't mean I don't want to settle down and make a life with someone

coffeetofunction · 03/05/2014 17:15

I think I a child is the biggest commitment you can make but people fail to realise this!! makes my blood boil

I'm 100% committed to DH, however I also have a commitment to my ex as we have children together.

I've personally found it to be the other way, that many people now disrespect marriage as just a piece of paper....

pommedeterre · 03/05/2014 17:24

We got married when dd1 was 14 months. I had lots of comments during pg and even after we married - from friends!

Pathetic really.

I now gloat slightly as I have had time to try for dc3 and they are still on dc1. At least I didn't put waiting for a proposal ahead of starting a family when I was ready!

oohdaddypig · 03/05/2014 17:31

I don't think anyone cares anymore in terms of social perceptions etc.

That said, marriage gives you legal protections you would not otherwise have, if you divorce. It probably depends on individual circumstances, but personally I wouldn't have had kids with DH without being married for this reason.

Anecdotally, of the couples I know who have kids, in significantly more of the unmarried couples has their been a break up, due to the father buggering off, for want of a better term. So based on my experiences, I do think that some men feel being unmarried provides an easier get out clause :(

I now feel i wouldn't want my daughter to have kids whilst unmarried - and I would never have felt this 5 years ago.

fascicle · 03/05/2014 17:33

BalloonSlayer

I do think however that a woman who is not married who gives her partner's surname to her children is unwise.

The reason is that if you break up and the children's father turns nasty - say he won't pay child support/you end up despising him /you never see him again, you have a different name to your children, no adult in the house has that name, you can't get it changed without his consent. Why I think a mother would feel differently if she also had the surname of this despised theoretical feckless ex-partner I don't know, but that's how I imagine I would feel.

So many negative assumptions in your imagined worst case scenario stereotype of 'this despised theoretical feckless ex-partner I don't know', which you have reserved for the male partner. Very unpleasant.

oohdaddypig · 03/05/2014 17:38

fascicle I didn't think it was unpleasant. Just based on the sad reality that all couples, married or not, break up and it's often nasty.

Use the legal protections that exist - as sadly it's so often the women who are more vulnerable!

Aspiringhuman · 03/05/2014 17:40

fasicle did you read my post underneath about a real life bastard ex partner?

TillyTellTale · 03/05/2014 17:49

My parents split up after I was born, while unmarried. As it was, I had been registered with my mother's surname. I'm glad of that. I was never ever bothered about my absent father, but if I'd borne the name of an adult I'd met once, I think it might have bothered me very much.