To have said no?

[Tiggywinklespinny]

We have just had dinner, chicken veggies and baby new potatoes.

Dsd (10) can barely use a knife and was asked to cut her chicken not eat it off the fork in a great lump. Instead she said she didn't want it and left it. Too full she said.

She's now on meltdown because I've said no to ice-cream. AIBU??

Perhaps those of you who are very relaxed about a ten-year-old not using a knife have missed the posts upthread from people who have seen older teenagers and people in their 20s who have simply not learned to eat with a knife and fork. As with any skill, you can be shown how to do it but if you don't practise it regularly you won't be any good at it. Well done to the OP for trying to make sure that her stepdaughter can use a knife and fork in the conventional way!

Table manners are there to ensure that people are considerate to the others they eat with. I'm surely not alone in finding it really unpleasant to have to see somebody eating in a messy way, which is what happens if you nibble a chicken breast from the fork, with sauce dripping back onto the plate.

I suspect that maybe at her other home she doesn't have to use her knife as well as her fork, because her mother doesn't insist and maybe the food served up is usually easy to eat with a fork or with the hands. Fine, but the rule at OP's house is different and a normal 10yo should be able to cope with that, just like she learns to cope with different rules for school and when she visits other people's houses.

Rabbitrisen, the assumptions and guesses people make are often very revealing about their prejudices. They certainly were on this thread. The immediate assumption was that this child barely knew the OP and spent little time with her, and that she must be deeply troubled by her parents' split - in other words, stepmother blaming. I'm not a stepmother and have no experience of stepfamilies. I have nothing but admiration for people who take on someone else's children and work hard at building a relationship with them. It must be incredibly tough.

Rabbitrisen, the assumptions and guesses people make are often very revealing about their prejudices. They certainly were on this thread. The immediate assumption was that this child barely knew the OP and spent little time with her, and that she must be deeply troubled by her parents' split - in other words, stepmother blaming

But that is not stepmpther blaming is it?
That is a lack of knowledge of the op's situation. And perhaps not an up to date knowledge of the subject in general. And also, maybe having a somewhat old fashioned view of modern day step parenting?

So if we leave aside the clearly major issue of the child's father politely asking her to eat with a knife, is the child's reaction ok? Throwing tantrums and slamming doors hard enough to break?

I made reference to a visiting child. I certainly didn't say the DSD was "just" a visiting child.
I mentioned "visiting" to illustrate the futility of penalising behaviour in your own home which is essentially harmless, if the child lives in a home where that behaviour is tolerated or modelled.
I don't think anyone assumed that the DSD had only recently met the op. I made a comment about it being late in the day to start changing behaviour. But that was in response to the OPs own comment suggesting that they were only recently trying to encourage her to make improvements.

OP, whether or not DSD can or cannot use her knife properly, whether or not she is anxious and needing stability or just a brat - your & her dad's approach evidently is not working.

Obviously there are issues with her biological mum you've only touched upon in this thread - some advice, stepmother to stepmother - do not take her head on via the way you handle the child. It only ever ends in tears.

I can appreciate that after 3 days a week of living with someone that doesn't seem to care about her very much that coming into a house where she is expected to behave to polar opposite standards is distressing or confusing for her, can't you?

For any other child in a "normal", stable situation, YWNBU, but I think you're on the borderline here. Either way, surely there is no harm in changing your approach for a month or two and seeing if she starts to feel less stressed.

It sounds obvious but you have to be the peacekeeper in this relationship, her father is undoubtedly not happy about the way her mother treats that and I guarantee you your DSD will understand his opinion all too well. If you back up your partner relentlessly the DSC sees you as the reason for "poisoning" their parent with views so polar to the other - hence the desire to drive you apart and the sheer anger that they won't succeed with that. Try to be neutral, as best you can.

There are presumptions made on every thread, and the irony strikes me that those who call out at usual and hully for projecting stress or upset on to the little girl are also projecting their own notion that she is just a brat and everything's fine onto the situation - because not even OP knows the girl's reasons for throwing a strop and being upset over some chicken.

How likely is it that a 10 year old able to cut up their food would avoid doing so because they could avoid doing so? Especially when you negate icecream rights? Not very, IMO. How likely is it that a 10 year old blowing up over some chicken and expected table manners has other difficulties going on? Quite, probably.
So why not sit down and ask her - gently - "what's the matter? The deal over the chicken, what happened with using your knife?". Let her say her piece then draw a line under it.

(TL;DR version: cut the kid some slack, move on).

coming into a house where she is expected to behave to polar opposite standards
That's unfair to the OP. 'Polar opposite' to the mother would be applying rigid, unbending discipline. She's not doing that - she's just expecting the girl to sit down and eat properly, as she is quite capable of doing but has decided not to.

truffle you put that so much better than I did.
Eloquent.

Haven't read the whole thread, but I think you're quite right OP. There's no reason why she can't eat with a knife and fork (DS does this to wind me up too). I would have done the same. They need to know that bad behaviour isn't rewarded. You're doing her a favour by teaching her how to behave properly, which she will come to appreciate eventually.

Utter bollocks..dh asked her to use her knife she chose not to and then after throwing a fit dh and I denied her ice cream. I don't need step mother to step mother advice. You're not here you are reading between lines you have made up.

If she were my biological child would I then be questioned on my neglect or love? There are many children in families with both parents together who have issues. To say it's because she's between two homes is a big assumption.

I repeat I never asked for advice or if anyone thought I was a crap step parent. I am offended by those with children making out my dsd is somehow damaged and THAT is why she chose to behave the way she did.

If you're happy to let your kids to eat with their fingers and choose to not give them boundaries in favour of the 'oh darling please don't do that' approach then you carry on I'd never judge you for your parental choices.

Thanks so much to those who have understood my perspective and given support.

If she were my biological child would I then be questioned on my neglect or love?

Hmm. Seems I am a really shit mother then OP. Much, much worse than you.

DD (my biological child and light of my life) is now 9. When she was 7/8 she started to 'rebel' at the dinner table (not wanting veg, chewing with her mouth open, picking stuff up with her fingers, coating everything in ketchup etc).

She'd be warned once, then if she did 'it' again (whatever it was, but including once, stabbing a whole sausage with her fork and bringing it up to her mouth to chew on it - much like your chicken breast issue), I would pick up her dinner and take it away.

If she then asked for something else to eat later, I'd offer to microwave the unfinished dinner. If she said no, she had nothing else.

Her table manners are shit hot now. But like I said. I'm obviously a shit mother for insisting on it.

I don't see why it's assumed that parents who prefer a "lead by example" approach rather than a punitive one are considered to not care whether their DCs will grow up to have good table manners.
The punitive approach doesn't work.
As your 10 yo, non- knife-using DSD demonstrates.
And you've told us that her time is split between homes. That's not an assumption. And that her mother is more interested in her own bf than in her dd, so it's completely reasonable to suggest she might be rebelling (the meltdown, the door slamming, the ice cream pillaging) over more than a request to use her knife.
But no. You are not to be challenged.

You clearly haven't heard of the dinner stomach and the dessert stomach. Her dinner stomach is full, but she has plenty of room in her dessert stomach

I don't mind someone else thinking I'm a shit mother. Only I can know the truth. I know I'm harsh in some areas and lax in others, but that's my choice and I'm happy to own it.

It was a phase usual, I'd seen the same thing with DSD when she was that age. Finding little battles to try to win. I let DD get away with a lot, but table manners are very important to me. 1) because we eat out a lot and 2) because some bad manners actually make me feel queasy (like lip smacking or chomping or chewing with mouth open) and 3) it's a basic skill imo.

The veg thing was just her being bloody minded. She likes them all, she was just trying to cause a scene. The ketchup thing was her covering the whole meal - not a dip, not a taste, just trying to spoil her dinner (thinking if she did she could have crisps or sweets or even ice-cream instead). Not a chance.

Tiggy I don't believe you are personally being accused of neglecting your DSD.
Some ppl have suggested she might feel neglected. But that's not uncommon in split households. You've given some information about her mum that would make it very likely shed feel put out. It's not all about you.
Just because she might feel unhappy doesn't mean that it's your fault.

Fair enough. On the stepmother-to-stepmother front, I said it so you knew there are people on this thread in similar situations. It's by the by, but I don't think you're a crap stepparent. My kids took time to adjust but now they're happy with me - every family has teething issues and I just chose to be different to the existing parent & OH - a neutral third body, less parent, more role model (hopefully). Enjoy the weekend with your DSD.

BTW, from your posts, I'm not suggesting your household is the one with the problem...

YANBU. DSD is trying to push boundaries. She is trying to see what she can get away with/can she play the adults against each other. I'd say it's a normal occurence and that most children will try to push the envelope at some point. This would happen whether you were the birth mother or not.
You and DP have not buckled under the tantrum and have kept your cool and a united front, IMO entirely the right thing to do. Asking a 10 year old to eat properly/use table manners is not an unreasonable rule, it's a normal/useful social skill.

"If you're happy to let your kids to eat with their fingers and choose to not give them boundaries in favour of the 'oh darling please don't do that' approach then you carry on I'd never judge you for your parental choices"

What a croc of shit.

If you tried to get it the bottom of why she's behaving like this, she'd be using a knife without fuss. why dont you and her Dad try being nice to her whilst eating and see what happens.