To have really upset DH and now he's scared to touch me.

[brotherhoodofspam]

Have NC for this as DH knows my username. Am looking for a bit of perspective. DH has tendency to grab a boob/my bum when I'm not expecting and I've always found it pretty annoying but have tended to swat him away but never really said how unappealing and unsexy I find it. Came to a head at weekend. I was coming down with throat infection and was telling him I was feeling shivery and unwell and he said - "is that why your nipples are big?" and proceeded to grab them. I told him I didn't appreciate being groped particularly when feeling unwell. He got really upset and there followed long "discussion"about this and other aspects of our sex life, or lack of it as he sees it (once or twice a week usually - sometimes more sometimes less). Anyway he's been really quiet since then and this morning I found out he's still really upset. Says I made him feel like a sex offender and doesn't know how to touch me / initiate sex now. I think I've really knocked his confidence. I apologised for using the very loaded word "grope" and explained that it was just the last straw when I was trying to tell him I was unwell, but I don't really know how to make things right with him. He's a great DH and we love each other++ and maybe I was stupid to try after 18 years of marriage to be honest about something that really is a bit of a turn off. So WIBU to tell him what I thought? Do other people object to this kind of thing? Have I been spending to much time on MN and getting daft ideas that speaking your mind is a good idea? And any suggestions for how I make this right with him?

My Dh used to do this, many moons ago. Along with making sexual innuendos with everything I did.

I too used to bat him away and tell him to stop. In the end like others it took me blowing my top to make him realise that it is not a good way to communicate that he wanted me. He reacted very much like your dh, passed the blame to me.
I explained to him There's nothing worse than being lunged at every time you move, that its not nice having to wait until he was out of the house for me to have a bath or shower (apparently that meant I was up for it) and that I was sick of every conversation we had being used to turn the subject back to sex!!!

It made me feel cheap and only good for one thing and that he didn't respect me in any way shape or form.
He genuinely thought that he was showing he loved me!!
And said that if he didn't do this I would start to wonder why!!!
I asked him if any of the lunging and groping ever led to a wild session in the bedroom and the penny finally dropped.
He backed off and hasn't done it since.

You should not feel guilty, nor should you apologise. You both need to sit down and talk, make it very clear to him what is acceptable and what isn't.
He will get over it but at the moment his ego has taken a bashing and he is actually feeling guilty as he knows deep down he was wrong to carry on and has pushed you too far.

If he respects you he will realise what a knobber he has been!!

It's quite flattering really, when you think about it

Please tell me this was a joke?!

I was hoping it was Walter but I am getting the impression it wasn't. Dear God.

Have only read OP's posts, so apologies if I'm covering old ground.

I'm a little bit sceptical about your husband being 'upset' - or at least about being upset in the way you mean upset. He's probably a bit miffed that he's been pulled up on his behaviour, and annoyed that he can't continue it now that he's been bluntly told you don't like it. But upset? Nah. Upset would only come into it if he felt any empathy for how his behaviour has made you feel for the past 18 years, and I don't see that here. What I am seeing in his being "really quiet since then" is a sulk. It would be nice if it was reflectiveness, or even genuine upset, but it looks like a sulk to me.

"Says I made him feel like a sex offender and doesn't know how to touch me / initiate sex now. " Oh dear. So his behaviour is at fault but you're supposed to be the one who feels guilty? And it's working too - you respond by apologising for using the word 'grope' and are now thinking "I don't really know how to make things right with him". Well, first off, 'grope' is not a loaded word and it very accurately describes what he did. If he finds the word loaded, that's his problem; because he DID grope you. Or does he think it can't be groping because he owns is married to you? Secondly, it is for him to make things right with you! He is in the wrong. FFS, - in what was is lunging at your nipples meant to stop you feeling unwell? It's just so ludicrous a reaction to you telling him you're not feeling well. Ludicrous and disrespectful and downright creepy. Stop thinking that you have "really knocked his confidence." You haven't, because he's feeling confident enough to try and guilt-trip you into saying nothing next time he gropes you.

"So WIBU to tell him what I thought? Do other people object to this kind of thing? Have I been spending to much time on MN and getting daft ideas that speaking your mind is a good idea? And any suggestions for how I make this right with him?"
No, you were not being unreasonable. I would certainly object to his behaviour. Spending time on MN has been good for you, presumably if it had been around 18 years ago you'd have nipped this unappealling behaviour of his in the bud. How to make this right with him? Tell him to grow the fuck up, stop sulking and get a grip (but not of your boobs).

Good post, Where.

Some of these excusing replies are incredible!
If the dh communicates his likes in a vigorous physical manner, then a vigorous physical response could be misinterpreted as positive

Oh, I get it So, like, if he goes "Phwoar! Nipples!" and lunges at your aunt's breasts, and she pushes him off, this means she wants him to go in for another grab? That figures ... oh, wait, no it doesn't!

As everyone with common sense has been saying, a man who knows what behaviour is offensive (and is therefore not in a residential institution) must know he's behaving offensively towards his wife. Either that or he doesn't consider his wife 'people'.

My reply wasn't meant to be an excusing one, although I can see it probably came across that way. The OPs husband behaved really horribly and if a man did that to me, I'd hit the roof, and sod any resulting sulking.

Where's William of Ockham when you need him?

My DH used to have a habit of grabbing a boob or nipple if I leant across him for anything or both hands were occupied because I was tying my hair up or washing up. I absolutely loathe that opportunist touching you when you are not in a position to stop it. It is sort of controlling or takes control away from you over your own body somehow. I put him right though and he did apologise and stop it immediately.

Says I made him feel like a sex offender

Tell him to stop acting like one then.

Buzzard it is truly depressing here sometimes, and I see MN as one of the more enlightened Internet forums.

It's been ingrained into people to think that women's bodies are there for male consumption, as is evident by some posts on this thread.

If the dh communicates his likes in a vigorous physical manner, then a vigorous physical response could be misinterpreted as positive

Missed this little gem of victim blaming. FFS!

FFS back!

I'm not victim-blaming. I'm explaining a lack of understanding between people.

Of course he is wrong to do something that upsets her. It doesn't mean he is a misogynistic bastard.

I've just remembered a little work incident. A man of the old-school, dirty jokes type, grabbed my breast during a conversation in the office. I shoved his hand off and said "Don't do that!" I wouldn't have made a formal complaint, as I reckoned that was enough, but someone else did. He was disciplined. The hearing genuinely improved his behaviour, and I hope all the gropey husbands mentioned here will improve after a similarly clear explanation.

It doesn't mean he is a misogynistic bastard.

It doesn't mean he's a bastard, but he is a misogynist. He treats his woman like a piece of sexual property, despite 18 years of vigorous physical discouragement.

I'm afraid that's exactly what it makes him.

Any man who thinks he has free reign to grope a woman's breasts, especially when she's ill and weaker than usual is exactly that.

And like I said, I really think it's ingrained into people.

Why should the onus be on her in any way? Why should she have to communicate that her body is not there for his groping pleasure?

This is something that he should know, not something that has to he mansplained to him.

And then making her feel guilty, presumably so she won't object the next time? That very much makes him a misogynistic bastard. With bells on.

yes, that

Actually, dh does have few reign to grope my breasts, I have told him so - verbally, explicitly. And when he groped them whe I did not like it (pregnant!) I told him to stop - verbally, explicitly - and why. He did not grope them again until I was ready. He found out when I was ready by asking me.

As far as the OP's dh is concerned, he has been doing something consistently for 18 years, she has been responding consistently for 18 years, and that's the status quo. Why should it change? He hasn't noticed anything wrong. Perhaps he's unobservant. Perhaps he needed to be told - explicitly, verbally.

The fact that he was insensitive enough to do it while she was ill and had clearly told him so is nasty and selfish.

I've had a few long term relationships, and a few casual ones. Do you know none of the men groped my breasts/genitals when I was telling them I was sick or unloading the dishwasher or when it was clearly unwelcome at all? And I have quite nice breasts, apparently!!

These men must have been really unusual, highly intuitive characters with excellent communication skills and capable of enormous self-restraint.

Or perhaps they were just normal.

These men must have been really unusual, highly intuitive characters with excellent communication skills and capable of enormous self-restraint

Or perhaps they were just normal

And with a shred of respect for women.

she has been responding consistently for 18 years

Yes, by slapping his hand away and when she does finally pluck up the courage to tell him explicitly, he punishes her by withdrawing from her, sulking, making her feel apologetic and having her minimise what he did.

It's a man thing. I had that conversation some time ago. Told my DH it was a right turn-off and if he wanted sex, there were other ways to go about it. That a good cuddle was a nice start, and various other romantic-type things. He has stopped the physical stuff but now doesn't initiate anything at all! I think I need to pin the info on 'how to get your lady in a romantic mood' somewhere high where the toddler can't get it!

"As far as the OP's dh is concerned, he has been doing something consistently for 18 years, she has been responding consistently for 18 years, and that's the status quo. Why should it change? He hasn't noticed anything wrong. Perhaps he's unobservant. Perhaps he needed to be told - explicitly, verbally."

Well he has been hasn't he? And he's angry about it.

I think if you think that 18 years of someone ignoring very clear signals is normal behaviour, then you have very low aspirations for people's behaviour.

"If men are so good at communication, why is it that we have to teach our sons, explicitly, that, when a woman says "No", she means "No", and not "Oooo, yes, please!"?"

Because as Greenwinter says, the rest of our culture is telling men that when a woman says no she means yes.

Though men who aren't interested in reserving the option to rape women without being held accountable for it, don't seem to have any difficulty with knowing that No means No irrespective of whether the person saying it has a penis or a vagina. It's only men who want to keep the option of rape available to them, who pretend they don't know what No means.

And men with genuine communication difficulties like aspergers etc., don't have a problem with recognising No as meaning No, because they tend to take things literally and don't assume that words have different meanings depending on the genitalia of the speaker.

It's a man thing

That's actually quite an insult to the respectful, decent men out there who wouldn't treat their partners with such disdain, or like theirs for the groping!

It really isn't a man thing.

It's a creepy man thing. Men who aren't creeps don't do it, because they know it's creepy.

Well it's not a bloody 'man thing' here.