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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To want autonomy over my body.

999 replies

thebodydoestricks · 23/04/2014 16:12

Aibu here. I am 50 but apparently still fertile.

I have 4 children already and do not want any more.

According to some posters if I fell pregnant but hadn't used at least 2 methods of contraception I should be denied the abortion I would most definatly want.

I would have to go before a panel of judges in a court to plead my case. They would judge whether I should have an abortion or not.

Of course if there was a back log of cases then I would have to wait and if it reached 24 weeks it would be too late anyway.

I would be forced to give birth.

Aibu to be absolutely stunned at this posters view in Britain 2014?

OP posts:
VampyreofTimeandMemory · 27/04/2014 00:15

annikins you seriously think removing an embryo with no consciousness is the same as murdering a child? bit extreme.

sakura · 27/04/2014 00:20

I imagine the cries from the gallery: "You expect us to ask men to stop impregnating women!!!" But men are allowed to do whatever they want, surely! Even if it means women suffer horrible consequences from their actions. And just because a woman was complicit doesn't take the responsibility away from men. They know exactly what happens when they come inside a fertile woman, so there is no point in them feigning shock horror when the inevitable happens, knowing that contraception is never 100% effective.
Am I advocating for celibacy? I'm not sure. I'm advocating for something better than the so-called "pro-lifers" on here are suggesting, which is a despicable, barbaric practice of forced birth.

sakura · 27/04/2014 02:19

Any "pro-life" man who has ever stuck his dick in a woman who did not specifically want a pregnancy can be regarded as nothing but a joker. And his joke is played out at the expense of women. And that would include all "pro-life" men. If it didn'T, their pro-lifer memes would include a vow of celibacy. A vow not to create an unwanted life with their roaming dicks.
How any woman be taken in by the misogynistic "pro-life" (pro-death-for-women) stance is beyond me.

duckyneedsaclean · 27/04/2014 03:42

'forced birth'
The thing is, if you had late term abortion as so many on here think should be freely available, you would still have to give birth, just to a dead dissected child.

Did that not sound nice? Its not.

bloominbumpy · 27/04/2014 06:13

Ducky glad you said that. Thats exactly what my last post was about. Which funny enough no one has answered..

The baby has got to get out somehow!

Dawndonnaagain · 27/04/2014 07:24

What else would you call denying a woman who doesn't want a child, ducky. She would be forced to give birth.
(I don't think the process is quite as brutal as you have posited, by the way).

pommedeterre · 27/04/2014 07:40

I think limited choice and 'I would never do it' is all well and good until you find yourself with an unwanted pregnancy in a less than perfect situation. Then it's all a bit more real, the right to make your choice I think.

JessicaMary · 27/04/2014 08:14

The pure pro lifers will not have sex outside of marriage and take responsibility for male actions in impregnating their wife and life will begin at conception for them. I don't think most of them are irresponsible and they would certainly recommend celibacy until marriage although I am not here to put their case. I support existing abortion law and the existing law that a woman is not legally responsible even if she harms the baby before birth.

annikins37 · 27/04/2014 09:24

Hi Vampyre - yes, I do. I know not everyone will agree, and that's fair enough, because I realise there's lots of milestones where different people will decide 'life' begins. For me, it's conception, so anything after that is a baby.

AnyaKnowIt · 27/04/2014 10:06

Ducky, I would assume its done the same as and other late term abortion, you know the one that is legal

AnyaKnowIt · 27/04/2014 10:19
  • Ducky glad you said that. Thats exactly what my last post was about. Which funny enough no one has answered..

The baby has got to get out somehow!*

Depends on the age of the fetus doesn't it. There is a difference between a 3 week fetus to a 19 week one. Sane as giving birth to a 22 week to a 42 week.

Forced birthers as people who would denial any woman an abortion. So forcing her to give birth.

There answered now

bloominbumpy · 27/04/2014 11:13

No not really... I'm talking about aborting lets say a 37 week foetus as we have been discussing abortion to term.

What would be this difference apart from the baby would either be alive or dead? your still giving birth to it wether it vaginal or cs. So why would anyone choose to not allow the child to live or at least a chance?

I genuinely don't know which is why im asking those who believe in abortion to term.

From going by my own mind I don't think I could "kill" a foetus at term and wouldn't see the point if I was going to have to technically give birth to it anyway...

bloominbumpy · 27/04/2014 11:15

This is of course we are talking about a "healthy" foetus.

As aa far as im aware there are already exceptions for when a foetus is not viable.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 27/04/2014 11:22

Bloomin, as noted above, if the doctors are able to only focus on the health of the mother, the options available to them for inducing delivery and for associated pain relief are greater.

I continue to dislike this discussion about a 37 week abortion/live birth induction without acknowledging that, if this became legal for some reason, the period from 25-36 weeks would also be legal and therefore the "attempted live birth induction" alternative would have to apply in this period if it did at 37 weeks.

bloominbumpy · 27/04/2014 11:28

I agree it wouldn't work throughout.. so maybe the answer to maybe get a bit of thw best of both worlds as it were would be to make the cut off for abortion later.

I don't agree that a 25 week baby should be forced to be born. But I don't agree that a 36 week baby should be "killed"

But then who could decide when the cut off would be.. I would assume thats why its 24 weeks now and that is when a foetus could survive outside the womb with medical help. Maybe the cut off could be when the foetus could survive without medical intervention? but then thats different for every maybe.. hmm rambling and thinking out loud here.

sakura · 27/04/2014 11:34

The pro-lifers consistently avoid the fact that conception is avoidable. If men ( who tend to lead the pro-life arguments --patriarchal religion etc) really cared about life they would be lecturing other men on celibacy i.e not coming inside a fertile woman. Instead they are hounding women who have decided they cannot go through with childbirth.
Childbirth is a risk, you risk your life, which is another issue that the forced birthers on here are quick to avoid.

One person above asked me if late term abortion was desirable. No it's not. I ask her a question: is a dead woman desirable? Stop pretending childbirth doesn't come without risk to life.

The pro-lifers don't value life, not women's lives at least, but do value men's right to inseminate women wantonly. I wonder what would happen if men were held responsible for their crime of ejaculating inside a woman who does not actively seek childbirth. If they had a jail sentence, for example. You can bet that the abortion rates would fall because there would be less babies conceived. But oooh noo, heaven forbid we prevent men from coming inside fertile women. We must protect their right to do so and shift the attention away from them and onto the women who have to somehow clean up the mess.

sakura · 27/04/2014 11:36

And when you put it like that: jail sentences for men who inseminate a woman, you can see the pro-life stance for what it is. They would never dream of creating such a law, proving once again that they are not really concerned about the "unborn child". They are concerned about coercing and controlling women.

sakura · 27/04/2014 11:41

Talks of late term abortion is a nifty way of taking attention away from the real culprits here, and that is men who know that ^there is absolutely no physical risk to them when they inseminate a fertile woman, but there are dire consequences for her. Can't believe so many men are getting away with creating these lives, tbh, and have people behaving as though what they've done is normal and fine, but the woman is an evil witch for not going through with the unwanted pregnancy. It's ridiculous.

uselessidiot · 27/04/2014 11:43

Interesting that only one pro-lifer addressed my question and that was to say she couldn't answer it.

AnyaKnowIt · 27/04/2014 12:01

Yy sakura

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 27/04/2014 12:50

Bloomin, IIRC, one reason parliament didn't lower the abortion limit in the most recent debate is that there really hasn't been an improvement in survival rates of pre-24 week live births over the last decades, despite other improvements in medicine.

Any child that has survived from the pre-24 week mark (and then we are talking eg 23 + 4) and even past 24 weeks by some days has had extensive medical intervention to survive and is often affected throughout their lives. Done survive birth but die shortly afterwards. I believe most hospitals will limit their intervention in any birth before 24 weeks.

GimmeDaBoobehz · 27/04/2014 12:54

If you or anyone else was just using condoms then I wouldn't class that as enough as there are so many variables. Same with spermicide so it would depend on the types of contraception.

If you were sterilised and using condoms and it still happened I agree you should be allowed an abortion if that's what you want and it's not really anyone else's business.

What bugs me is those who don't use any contraception who fall pregnant and then want an abortion. It just really pisses me off.

pommedeterre · 27/04/2014 13:05

I did that boobz. Hah hah. The law allows me to, even in shirty catholic Italy.

I am not going to justify myself either.