To want autonomy over my body.

[thebodydoestricks]

Aibu here. I am 50 but apparently still fertile.

I have 4 children already and do not want any more.

According to some posters if I fell pregnant but hadn't used at least 2 methods of contraception I should be denied the abortion I would most definatly want.

I would have to go before a panel of judges in a court to plead my case. They would judge whether I should have an abortion or not.

Of course if there was a back log of cases then I would have to wait and if it reached 24 weeks it would be too late anyway.

I would be forced to give birth.

Aibu to be absolutely stunned at this posters view in Britain 2014?

[AskBasil]

No, YANBU to think you're entitled to bodily autonomy

[TwistedReach]

No I didn't say that - I couldn't understand the reaction she was getting as her posts were not aggressive at all and she was asking reasonable questions.

[thebodydoestricks]

gimme totally respect your right to never have an abortion.

However other women's bodies are theirs to do with as they wish.

Your comment about women loosing full term babies? What on earth has that got to do with another woman seeking an abortion.?

It's as daft as my dm telling me to eat my veg because there are starving children in the world!!

Nonsense.

[Dawndonnaagain]

Twisted according to an earlier post of yours, the only person that made sense here was the loudest and most persistent believer in forced birth at all. Are you sure you are on the same thread as the rest of us?

[AnyaKnowIt]

Then you should rtft

[TwistedReach]

If I'm right you're talking about your own experience and that sounds horrendous and I can't explain why anyone would think it was ethically right to force you to go through a pregnancy that is not viable. I am very sorry that that is what you are facing.

I am referring to all the conjecture on this thread about the reasons why anybody might consider abortion a complicated issue. It is astounding and not based on anything anyone here has said. If they had then the responses would make sense.

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

OP, Louise considers that women naturally prefer to stay home and that the world will always be sexist and that's as it should be. So, y'know...

[uselessidiot]

I've explained my question 3 times now, I really don't see why I should repeat myself for a third time.

[TwistedReach]

Sorry useless I don't understand what you mean?

[uselessidiot]

My questions are based on things that have been said to my face, things I don't understand. I've not been debating the point as such as until someone is prepared to actually explain the point to me I'm unable to properly formulate a counter argument. HTH

[thebodydoestricks]

The forced birther will use any argument/excuse however ridiculous to push their philosophy.

The reference to cancer is quite the stupidest comparison I have ever heard Louise 1956

[5madthings]

Or maybe lots of us have been having these same debates with the same posters time and time again.

And we aren't talking about just the views of other posters but the general issues regarding abortion and women's rights in general. The sexism and misogyny that abounds in the press and general culture, it's so insidious that many don't even recognise it. People have Bern socialised to accept it as normal. It all affects the way people view women and abortion.

And when it comes down to it if you are against abortion you won't be forced to have one, I am yet to hear a good argument why anyone should control another woman's right to bodily autonomy and that is what many seek to do.

[Dawndonnaagain]

Well it would be, if we weren't actually reading them.

[TwistedReach]

I honestly don't know why some of you bother debating as you're quite happy deciding for yourselves what others are thinking. I have not seen anyone on here make anything like the arguments you are suggesting. Bizarre.

[pommedeterre]

doctrine - yy - the costs of actually bringing up the 'foetus'. The issue does not end with the forced birth. It actually only starts there in fact.

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

"There are non-hormonal alternatives too."

Diaphragm and copper coil? I don't think either usually get given to teenagers for one.

But glad your argument wasn't quite as extreme as I first thought you meant "used a condom? Didn't try hard enough not to get pregnant so no abortion for you."

[Dawndonnaagain]

Don't these teenagers go to school at all? Read the post properly.

I don't think a parent should be allowed to stop a child from having sex ed That sentence should have finished here.

You shouldn't have to feel justified by society, you can do it with your head held high if you believe in your heart of hearts it's right for you.
This I respect.

Onto the other stuff. People aren't always careless, I had two, yes two, double contraception failures. Fortunately, each time I was in a postion to be able to continue the pregnancy. I then went on to try for a third child and ended up with twins. Fortunately I was in a position to be able to manage with twins. However, three of my four children have some disabilities, so were I to get pregnant after that (remembering contraception failures) I would not have hesitated to terminate the pregnancy, for myriad reasons but the most overwhelming being the possibility of a poorer quality of life for those children already in existence. Please remember, contraception failure is not carelessness. Please remember that the law says (thank goodness) that we don't have to use contraception, ergo, if we fuck up and forget, are careless etc we are as entitled (yep, I used that word) to put right our mistake as we see fit. Nobody has the right to tell us what to do with our body and it's crucial as women, that we support one another to gain that autonomy.

[pommedeterre]

gimme - yes it is up to me. Totally.

There is more of a backstory but I can't be arsed to do the scraping and begging justification people like you desire. None of your beeswax.

My fertily has nothing to do with anyone else. I could empty and refill my womb a hundred times and it makes absolutely no difference to the poor woman struggling ttc.

The woman having an abortion has no bearing on any tragic miscarriages or stillbirths anyone else (or indeed that woman) experiences.

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

The economics argument is such a load of old tat. The cost of midwife appointments, gp appointments, gas and air, epidurals, hospital beds, health visitors, baby clinics etc is going to piss all over the cost of an abortion, not to mention child benefit for 18 years, SMP for nine months AND the social costs of an unwanted child.

[uselessidiot]

gimme not all schools allow the teaching of contraception. As part of my job I sometimes get involved in the lessons they are given. One school in our area gets no mention of contraception at all, the priest won't allow it. Incidentally, which school do you think has the highest teenage pregnancy rate in our area?

[AnyaKnowIt]

So because some women lose a child, another women shouldn't be allowed an abortion?

[5madthings]

Of course it's double standards, women are feckless and irresponsible tho so it's ok..

baby I truly admire your strength on these threads and in your day to day life in dealing with such an awful situation. Your daughter would be very proud of I am sure, give a shout out on mnet if you do take your situation furtherance try and campaign fir changes in Ireland, there us lots of support and even if it's only emailing and sharing information I will do anything I can to help. Much love and strength to you xx

[GimmeDaBoobehz]

That's up to you pomme but the way I see it personally is if you don't take any responsibility, you're a bit of a fool to expect not to get pregnant.

Then terminating a pregnancy that some people would give up anything for seems callous. Of course if it was contraceptive failure it's due to no fault of the individual - but just because you can't be bothered to use something (even if you can't use hormonal, there are plenty of other things and if you're allergic to latex, other options too) - there is no excuse for stupidity in this day and age.

TheDoctrine I don't mean I don't think those who have contraceptive failure with condoms shouldn't have a termination. I just think to make sure they don't have to take that action, they should probably try a second form of contraception. It's still a contraceptive failure due to no fault of the person using them, so I don't think it would be fair to ban them from having an abortion.
There are non-hormonal alternatives too.

dawn Don't these teenagers go to school at all? I'm 24 and since I was 10 I've had sex education. I know it's probably not as intensive as it should be but it does discuss contraceptives very well or so I feel. Also, there are plenty of good family planning clinics. I know a few teens who have gone to them as their parents wont be told about it.
I used the term allowed because that's basically what is being discussed here - whether these doctors 'allow' you to access an abortion.
I don't think a parent should be allowed to stop a child from having sex ed unless there is a really good reason. I can't see the argument at all that it would encourage them.
I'm also saying that's what I feel. I'm not going to protest about it or scream at people who have had abortions without using a condom. I know people who have done it and haven't ventured my opinion and only would do if they specifically asked. But as the OP asked, I answered. I think my opinion is allowed as much as your opinion, surely?
I find those more defensive who have made the decision to have an abortion on these grounds. You shouldn't have to feel justified by society, you can do it with your head held high if you believe in your heart of hearts it's right for you.
I have no right to tell you otherwise -
it is simply my opinion.

I honestly can't bare to think of what some people have gone through with having to make the decision to terminate when the child wont have any quality of life/isn't going to be able to survive outside the womb. It's honestly heartbreaking.

I just feel passionate about it as my friends lost a baby at near full term they really wanted and others have just been careless. I have known people to have got pregnant without using any contraception and had the 'oh nevermind I'll have an abortion' comment. I know it's probably a lot less used than it probably feels, but it's just gutting that life can throw that at someone who has lost a baby and then someone wasn't careful enough to prevent it.

I am sorry if I offended you but that was not my intention.

[TheBabyFacedAssassin]

Louise have you read any of this thread?!

[AnyaKnowIt]

Wishing you the best baby