To want autonomy over my body.

[thebodydoestricks]

Aibu here. I am 50 but apparently still fertile.

I have 4 children already and do not want any more.

According to some posters if I fell pregnant but hadn't used at least 2 methods of contraception I should be denied the abortion I would most definatly want.

I would have to go before a panel of judges in a court to plead my case. They would judge whether I should have an abortion or not.

Of course if there was a back log of cases then I would have to wait and if it reached 24 weeks it would be too late anyway.

I would be forced to give birth.

Aibu to be absolutely stunned at this posters view in Britain 2014?

bloomin your exact words were but what I reaaaallly don't agree with is women that don't see it as an issue AT ALL you are at the end of the day ending a life in some form.

What did you mean by this if you weren't suggesting that women should feel guilt?

i compared it to a 2 year old because it is the same thing! just because it now lives on the outside world it suddenly becomes a crime? but people on here are saying women should have the choice to abort up until term? what bloody difference does it make?

A 2 year old is the same thing as a foetus in utero? Really? How many foetus's are you aware of who can walk, talk, make marks, or in fact do anything a 2 year old toddler can? And yes, people on here are saying that women should have the choice to abort to term, because those of us who are saying that believe women are not the feckless idiots that pro-lifers would like everyone to think they are. We are not telling them to do that, nor will be making anyone do it.

And yes actually if women DONT wish to have children and desire to make NO effort to prevent pregnancy then yes get your damn tubes tied instead of creating unwanted bodies.

So, if a woman is in a particular situation and doesn't wish to have children right now and for whatever reason isn't using a form of contraception you approve of, she should be sterilised? A little permanent, don't you think? What happens when her situation changes and she does want a child?

The reason you get your dog done is because you don't want them to pro create... you don't just let your dog keep getting up the duff and then aborting them do you??

The reason most responsible dog owners get their dogs 'done' is to prevent certain cancers and because it prevents some unwanted behaviour and the very real risk of your dog dying during pregnancy. Do you have any idea how expensive it is once your dog is 'up the duff' to abort the puppies?

yep. if she REALLY REALLY doesn't want children or any more children then yes... No one kicked up a fuss about my dad getting the snip he didn't want anymore children neither did my mother it would actually been have been medically unsafe for her to have been the one to be "sterilised" after previous surgeries/ child birth etc so my father chose to do it. so why shouldn't that be the right thing to do? surely it must be MUCH safer to have one operation that multiple abortion which surely must be a horrific thing to go through medically? regardless of the emotional side effects that is MAY carry for the women?

Obviously i myself can't see a time when i would know 100% for sure that i NEVER wanted children but i suppose you can get your eggs froze etc just incase you did change your mind..

Why go through the hassle of being pregnant and getting abortion unessacarily?

Do you know what is involved in freezing eggs!?

Cos getting your eggs frozen and then re-implanted is soooo easy and cheap!!

Hell, if that was the way it worked, I'de get sterilised tomorrow and just use my eggs when I needed them.

Jeez.

I take your point entirely, Maid (22:26)

Emotionally, I feel exactly the same as you. But I'm pro-choice which, to me, means I must be pro-choice up to when the the baby's an independent being.

The fact that 'life' can be artificially supported in so many ways blurs this distinction a lot. I come from a time & place when foetal scanning wasn't so good, genetics poorly understood, life support less sophisticated, and abortion illegal. There was a lot more pain and death; newborns were quietly killed on a regular basis. I'm relieved there are better alternatives, and would like to see the alternative of abortion fully extended. Doesn't mean I like the thought of it, though!

Down regulation (or switching off) of the pituitary gland with a nasal spray or daily injection or a single depot injectionto stop the ovaries working temporarily; this phase usually takes 2-3 weeks.
Stimulation of the ovaries with gonadotrophins, medications given by daily injection to help the production of several eggs simultaneously at the same time; this phase usually lasts 10-15 days.
Monitoring the development of the "egg sacs" (follicles) with ultrasound and occasional blood tests (for oestrogen concentrations).
Egg removal from the ovaries by a small surgical procedure, performed as a day case under sedation or light anaesthetic.

From the NHS

I do agree that for a woman who has 'finished having babies', maybe sterilisation would be the way to go. But again, her choice. I shouldn't be able to tell her to get sterilised, if it's not what she wants.

What about the woman who is just 20, has an abortion, knowing that she does want a family in the future, but not right now?

But, yeah just freeze a couple of eggs

Once we add conditions to anything to do with abortion, a woman instantly becomes a second class citizen, assumed to be incapable of a reasoned decision about something that affects her in a life changing way.

Those arbitrary limits on when abortion can take place, for example.

Abortion on demand, to term, is my position. And yes, I know that there are moral issues involved with that. They are just different to the moral issues that already exist with the current conditions and limits to what is allowed under the law. I very strongly believe that allowing abortion to term will not mean a sudden large rise in late term abortions. A woman who wants an abortion, for whatever reason, is most likely to want to get it done as soon as possible.

But full autonomy will mean women making choices that work for them. It doesn't mean inflicting their view on other women.

People who seek to impose conditions and limits on abortion are the ones who are inflicting their views onto others.

That doesn't in any way mean I don't have compassion for people who have to make some very distressing decisions.

captchaos - i can see some of your points but i will stress that i don't believe a woman should feel guilty for having an abortion at all.

The point i want to stress is that its not a light hearted subject?!

Am i really being a pro life up my own bum with opinions to think that ending a "foetus' life" is a decision to be made lightly? i can't see how. as i said i personally know women who take the morning after pill constantly ( and i keen constantly) rather then thinking about a more suitable long term solution such as pill, condoms, coil, pulling out, anything! and they see abortion as similar.. for them its a trip to the park and to me that makes them in some way heartless or at least very careless.

as i think someone else said if someone was allergic to peanuts but just kept eating them you'd think they were being very silly and should be taking more precaution?

Cos getting your eggs frozen and then re-implanted is soooo easy and cheap!!

Hell, if that was the way it worked, I'de get sterilised tomorrow and just use my eggs when I needed them.

Jeez.

do you know how much it costs to get an abortion?

Jeeeeeez

This is just silly

I thought abortion was free on the NHS? In some places such as BPAS and MS it can also be free although it's a bit of a postcode lottery.

Well I'm guessing that the person who kept eating peanuts wouldn't be doing it for long...

anya

completely fair point its not something i know anything about and freezing your eggs does seem rather a hassle... but if you really don't want children but might in the future then it IS an option..

Which is all i was saying originally its an option... there are MORE options than abortion. simple as that.

in my original egg freezing post i did but ETC
i actually don't even know what the ETC part would entail egg freezing was the only thing that came to my head its not something i've had to research or before this thread particularly thought much about.

bloomin

I'm not suggesting that you're 'up your bum' in anyway. Maybe we just know very different types of people. Everyone I know who has had an abortion, or many abortions has thought it through, in order to ensure that it was the best decision for them, their family and their situation. The MAP isn't an abortion, it prevents implantation, and even the most rabid forced birther seems to agree that a pregnancy starts at implantation. We don't know what people are thinking, even if they say flippant things about situations, it doesn't always reflect what they really think.

Whenever a woman has an abortion, part of her aftercare is to discuss or at least receive information about all kinds of contraception, but if women can't or won't use that information, are you really suggesting that the woman be forced to be either sterilised or carry any future foetus to term?

and yeah, abortion is free on the NHS, and women can be referred to BPAS and MS clinics if that would be most suitable.

No thebody , YANBU.

Some of the arguments on here are just ridiculous

ha well yes you'd like to think that they would learn that their peanut butter sarnies might be a tad of an issue!

i don't actually know what abortion really entails medical wise but surely it is quite a procedure?
why would anyone want to have multiple abortions? it can't be a very nice experience?

Regular pregnancy tests? For most people, periods are a reliable indicator. For a small number or those on certain contraceptives (of which I'm one) they are not.

Also I'm fairly sure I don't want children. Getting sterilised 1/2 - 2/3 of the way through my fertile years seems a bit drastic though and I doubt I'd get a GP to consent given neither DP nor I have DC.

I don't think it's helpful to consider the relative value of a babe in arms vs an adult. The fundamental difference is that if I get fed up caring for a babe in arms, disabled relative, elderly aunt or whoever, I can walk away from that responsibility. Perhaps not easily, not without judgement but I can walk away.. No-one can gestate my fetus for me. So it is not like for like.

Egg freezing is only an option if you can afford to pay the thousand it would cost.

capt

i've never said anyone should be forced into anything..

My original post said that i was not pro life or pro abortion I'm not pro anything intact.

of course women should be allowed to have abortions but i really do know people who don't see them as anything not a blip on the radar they think about it less than they do when deciding if that yoghurt in the fridge is still okay to eat (if you get what i mean)

bloomin This might be of interest to you then.

Emotionally, I feel exactly the same as you. But I'm pro-choice which, to me, means I must be pro-choice up to when the the baby's an independent being

I understand it is the intellectual limit of the pro-choice argument. I think I'm trying to find a way I can argue it and feel more secure in what I'm saying. I like precedent and consistency. I don't want to use any emotional arguments and I sometimes feel the 'abortion to term' is used emotionally.

I'm currently having a think about shared circulatory systems and the separation of Siamese twins at the expense of the life of the weaker one. May come back with something if my thoughts develop....

ha well yes you'd like to think that they would learn that their peanut butter sarnies might be a tad of an issue

No, chances are they would be dead

Fuck, I mean 'conjoined', not 'Siamese'. Apologies if anyone was offended by my casual use of outdated medical terms.