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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To want autonomy over my body.

999 replies

thebodydoestricks · 23/04/2014 16:12

Aibu here. I am 50 but apparently still fertile.

I have 4 children already and do not want any more.

According to some posters if I fell pregnant but hadn't used at least 2 methods of contraception I should be denied the abortion I would most definatly want.

I would have to go before a panel of judges in a court to plead my case. They would judge whether I should have an abortion or not.

Of course if there was a back log of cases then I would have to wait and if it reached 24 weeks it would be too late anyway.

I would be forced to give birth.

Aibu to be absolutely stunned at this posters view in Britain 2014?

OP posts:

NurseyWursey · 24/04/2014 22:16

captchaos not at all and it doesn't have to be a feminist argument

I liken it to someone who gets drunk and needs to go to the hospital and learns from the mistake, tries to minimise it from happening again verses a person who constantly gets pissed and needs to go into hospital for stomach pumps numerous times.

Just because we're women and should have autonomy, doesn't mean we should abuse it.

AnyaKnowIt · 24/04/2014 22:17

But why is it a big issue? Surely its better to terminate an unwanted pregnancy then have an unwanted child?

zeebaneighba · 24/04/2014 22:17

As in the DNA structures and major organs for life are complete - could be wrong on that, but theres a reason 14weeks is considered "safe" - the fetus has enough structures to viably grow and be healthy. How anyone can look at a 12week scan and say it's a clump of cells, not a baby, is beyond me.

By the way, pro- abortion is because pro-choice is a misnomer. I'm pro-choice - you can choose to have sex, choose to use contraception or not, choose to take responsibility for knowing if you're pregnant or not, choose to have a termination at the early stages - but your choice ends somewhere. Obviously we differ on when that line is, but many of the arguments for late abortions apply just as well to newborns.

LoveSardines · 24/04/2014 22:17

That wasn't to you nursey

I think that some women who are seeking multiple terminations definteily need support - there are a variety of situations where that can happen where women need help and aren't getting it.

I went for MAP recently and thought that it would have been good if the pharmacist had given me a leaflet about who to contact if I had been assaulted, seemed like a missed opportunity.

CaptChaos · 24/04/2014 22:18

Bloomin how guilty and awful do you think a woman should feel if she chooses and abortion? For how long do you want her to walk about wearing sack cloth and ashes? How many weeks afterwards should the average woman stay indoors in the dark for?

Conflating a foetus with a born 2 year old is slightly ridiculous. No one would ever suggest that that was either reasonable or sane. The puppies reference is also a bit odd, responsible dog owners have their pets neutered. Do you believe a woman should be neutered if she has more abortions than you deem reasonable, or doesn't show an amount of regret you believe to be ok?

basgetti · 24/04/2014 22:19

Oh yes eta start murdeing puppies because you know "its your dog" yes it might be HER body but its not HER LiFE that she's ending!
It's opinions like yours that make protesters shout murderer!

Abortion isn't about your body its about another human being other than yourself! Are you saying that a mother has the right to kill her 2 year old because " she made it it came from her body" fuck off are you! and if you are then your one sick son a bitch.

As previously said i'm not pro life at all

Your post is a bit of a contradiction.

LoveSardines · 24/04/2014 22:20

NurseyWursey alcoholism isn't something you can just "minimise" somehow.

Many of the women seeking multiple abortions will have complex issues, whether substance abuse, abusive partners, mental health problems, chaotic life for other reasons etc.

It is not straightforward. Yes some women will just go and get them but for others it will be a symptom of something going pretty bad in their lives.

Again I don't think we can or should judge.

NurseyWursey · 24/04/2014 22:20

anya because it keeps happening. Which means they're doing something wrong in their prevention. If a person kept coming to the doctors for say, food poisoning because they insist on eating a certain thing that makes them ill... Would you think that fine or would you think they were being stupid and irresponsible?

CaptChaos · 24/04/2014 22:21

nursey do you feel the same about women taking MAP? Women who aren't using NHS resources?

AnyaKnowIt · 24/04/2014 22:21

''It's opinions like yours that make protesters shout murderer!''

No, it really isn't. Its because they are a cunt

GarlicAprilShowers · 24/04/2014 22:21

About women who have 'too many' abortions.

On the last thread, I mentioned a hyper-fertile friend of mine who has a lot of children, despite having used double (and, in one case, triple) contraception at all times. People abuse her to her face and behind her back, for having so many kids from assorted fathers.

Had she aborted them instead, she'd be abused for that!

NurseyWursey · 24/04/2014 22:22

lovesardines wasn't talking about alcoholism, more binge drinkin as seen in A&E regularly.

The thing is we can't keep hiding behind this 'well they may have other issues going on'. Yes I'm quite sure a lot do, but a lot don't and I think more needs to be done for both cases. Women getting more support if needed, and others to be educated that what they're doing is actually a major thing and isn't as simple as taking a morning after pill.

LoveSardines · 24/04/2014 22:23

I don't like the way that outliers always get dragged in, and used as a justification to restrict rights for the non-outlying majority.

A very few women have multiple abortions, in the scheme of things, that should not be used to restrict abortion for everyone else.

Imposing a "three (or however many) strikes and you're out" policy on abortion and then, what, moving to forcible sterilisation = just no.

VisualiseAHorse · 24/04/2014 22:24

*and now you are advocating monthly blood tests???? For all sexually active females in the UK?
*

Not just that - it would be blood tests FOR all girls once they'd started their periods. (as we've already seen on this thread, sadly, women who weren't sexually active become pregnant due to rape).

Actually, it would be all girls - seeing as you can get pregnant before you have a period, and what with puberty starting younger and younger.... so all girls, have to have a monthly blood test just because you're uncomfortable with abortion.

NurseyWursey · 24/04/2014 22:25

lovesardines don't get me wrong I really don't think restricting the number of abortions will help, but more education and support perhaps. I'm not sure.

bloominbumpy · 24/04/2014 22:26

its not about amount or wanting a woman to feel guilty i've literally never said that.

But what my mind simply can't grasp is that people don't see it as a life and can compare it to "a tattoo of Miley on their ass"

it is a life it has a heart beat etc etc we an't just wonder round here pretending its not.

i compared it to a 2 year old because it is the same thing! just because it now lives on the outside world it suddenly becomes a crime? but people on here are saying women should have the choice to abort up until term? what bloody difference does it make?

And yes actually if women DONT wish to have children and desire to make NO effort to prevent pregnancy then yes get your damn tubes tied instead of creating unwanted bodies.
The reason you get your dog done is because you don't want them to pro create... you don't just let your dog keep getting up the duff and then aborting them do you??

AnyaKnowIt · 24/04/2014 22:26

How much will all these blood test cost? What happens if you refuse?

MaidOfStars · 24/04/2014 22:26

I would dare to assume that women seeking third-trimester abortions - of healthy foetuses - actually have some serious problems going on: social, financial, emotional, physical, mental, and maybe the full set. It's not smart to send her home with that baby, so it goes straight into care: her distress is further increased, her problems aren't solved, and another infant's at the mercy of a cash-strapped care system

For argument's sake:
Baby 1 born naturally under those circumstances and taken into care, distressed Mum, creates economic burden, experiences horror of care system, etc.
Baby 2 induced (alive) one day before term and taken into care, distressed Mum, creates economic burden, experiences horror of care system, etc.
We don't kill Baby 1, no matter how much of a 'mercy' it might be for the baby and Mum. Yet we can kill Baby 2? I'm not comfortable with this, it seems to exploit the bodily autonomy argument, rather than be a natural corollary of it.

I feel what you are saying is that it is only the death of the fetus that will solve Mum's problems?

AnyaKnowIt · 24/04/2014 22:28

'And yes actually if women DONT wish to have children and desire to make NO effort to prevent pregnancy"

Isn't that what a abortion does?

GarlicAprilShowers · 24/04/2014 22:28

I'm pro-choice - you can choose to have sex, choose to use contraception or not, choose to take responsibility for knowing if you're pregnant or not, choose to have a termination

We agree Oh, wait ... We differ on when that line is. I say: At no point during pregnancy. You say 12, 14, 24 weeks, whatever. Surely this means I'm pro more choice than you? Not pro-abortion!

I've never danced around going "Abortions are fab! Go ahead and have one, have lots of abortions! You won't regret it, abortions are so cute!"

... Nah. I'm not pro-abortion I'm pro more choice.

VisualiseAHorse · 24/04/2014 22:31

Because, in my eyes at least, a baby is part of the mother's body until the cord is cut. Therefore, she has ultimate control over what happens to that baby until it becomes a separate entity to her.

Stop comparing dogs and humans. It makes no sense.

bloominbumpy · 24/04/2014 22:32

And yes actually if women DONT wish to have children and desire to make NO effort to prevent pregnancy"

Isn't that what a abortion does?

go back and read it!

i believe once you've got to the point of abortion you kind of skipped the "prevention of pregnancy" section.

AnyaKnowIt · 24/04/2014 22:35

So you would prefer a woman to sterilized to having an abortion?

AnyaKnowIt · 24/04/2014 22:38

Oh no wait, not even that is 100%

LayMeDown · 24/04/2014 22:38

You see I am not sure about this argument at all. Are you suggesting that allowing the baby be aborted will solve this woman's problems? Do you think the baby being induced and born alive and put into care will add to her problems? It may do i suppose but then so could going through a late term abortion?
Or are you saying that we should as an extension of a woman's right to choice allow them to decide that the viable foetus should be killed before delivery to save the state money?

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