To want autonomy over my body.

[thebodydoestricks]

Aibu here. I am 50 but apparently still fertile.

I have 4 children already and do not want any more.

According to some posters if I fell pregnant but hadn't used at least 2 methods of contraception I should be denied the abortion I would most definatly want.

I would have to go before a panel of judges in a court to plead my case. They would judge whether I should have an abortion or not.

Of course if there was a back log of cases then I would have to wait and if it reached 24 weeks it would be too late anyway.

I would be forced to give birth.

Aibu to be absolutely stunned at this posters view in Britain 2014?

Oh for goodness sake - while on the pill periods aren't that reliable. Other hormonal contraceptive tampers with periods as well. Get a clue - if you really can't bear the thought of being pregnant to the degree you would abort at 20+ weeks you take responsibility for making sure you're not. Simple really, and sensible - something I did regularly after the birth of dc2 when periods didn't return for 1+ yr. And in my country family clinics provide free tests. It's not hard surely, to take responsibility for your sexual and reproductive health? Enough of this martyrish women-have-it-so-tough - for goodness sakes you're adults, deal with it. Abortion to 12-14 weeks should be enough except for in extreme cases. It is the NZ law at the moment and I don't see many women forced to give birth around here.

By the way you should also regularly test for STIs, smear tests, breast self-checks for cancer etc ... Or is that another thing we shouldn't be responsible for?

Have not seen previous thread or read all posts.

yanbu from what I can see.

I'm not pro life but I don't agree in abortion unless it is for a solid reason yhis includes many things such as.... rape,unwanted, unable to care for,money, illness etc etc

but what I reaaaallly don't agree with is women that don't see it as an issue AT ALL you are at the end of the day ending a life in some form. I mean this like I know women personally who have made NO prior effort to stop pregnancy happening and just see abortion as a way of out trouble if that makes sense.

Obvious situations and reasons aside if you dont want to get pregnant them use some form of contraception simple. If said contraception is used and fails by all means get an abortion but make your mind up fairly sharpish.

personally I think 24 weeks is farr to late to be allowed to abort but from my minimal understanding this is onlyoffered I extextreme cases.

Hope that all makes sense :/

You want all of the sexually active females in the country to go to clinics every month for pregnancy tests?

I don't think they provide them free in the UK anyway, I'm sure my GP told me that when I called up to try and book an ante-natal appt.

This litany of direction you want at women. Checking this and that, 100% responsible for the other, must perform pregnancy test as well as using contraception just in case what a fucking oppressive way to live.

I notice there is no mention whatsoever of men and their responsibilities in any of this - another big surprise there, it's all on the fucking women and girls isn't it, all the bloody time.

And of course the good girls, the ones who have got pregnant through abuse and not through having sex that they liked, they get a certain amount of pity but sorry no abortion after 12 weeks either because, you know, just because. Babies innit.

FFS.

Every right has it's limits and IMO the limit is when the fetus has completed it's physical development (around 12-14 weeks if I remember correctly)

If a human fetus has completed it's physical development at 12-14 weeks, why is a human fetus not born at 12-14 weeks.

You do not remember correctly. At 12 weeks, the fetal body plan is well established (and has been for some time) and many organs are developing nicely, but many are still in their infancy. Brains have not made connections. Bones have yet to harden. Eyes do not see. Faces need remodelling. I could go on.

Anyway, why would the completion of physical development represent a threshold? What's the significance of this biological timepoint?

Visualise My understanding of the right to choose is that it is a woman's right to decide what happens to her own body. Sometimes a consequence of that choice is that a pregnancy is ended and a non viable foetus does not survive.
Where I struggle with the abortion to term idea is that somehow the women's right has now extended to deciding that a viable foetus should not survive rather than just deciding to end the pregnancy. The fact some women may want the child not to live does not mean that the they have the right to do so. And I don't think the right to bodily integrity extends to this if the pregnancy can be terminated without fatal consequences for the foetus.

I am aware that this issue relates to a tiny percentage of cases, and I am certainly not of the opinion that women will be lining up to avail of almost full term abortions should they become available. I am just wondering how delivering a late term baby alive is anti-choice.

A quick google tells me that abortion is allowable for a number of reasons to 20 weeks in NZ, and to term in cases of foetal abnormality.

here

I would say "get a clue" but that would sound a bit sarcy.

FYI the NHS informs me thus:

"Most abortions (around 90%) are carried out before a pregnancy reaches 13 weeks, and virtually all abortions (around 98%) are performed before 20 weeks."

If the figures are similar in NZ, you are correct, not many women are being forced to give birth. However they would be if you moved the limit to 12 weeks.

Excellent zeebaneighba. Interesting post.

Good to know that you feel you can sit in judgement over women who, like myself, didn't need any form of contraception, because we weren't in sexual relationships.

To reiterate. Women should, at all times, have complete bodily autonomy. This includes up until term. Not from some arbitrary date, decided by someone who has no knowledge of a particular situation. To disagree with that suggests that the person disagreeing is either

1. too stupid to understand simple debates.

2. too selfish and self-righteous to really be allowed to make any decisions which might affect someone else's life.

3. believes that women are too stupid, feckless and irresponsible to have choice over their own body.

None of which is particularly endearing.

If you don't want to have an abortion, whether it be at 5 weeks, 18 weeks or 32 weeks, then don't have one. It's really that simple. All the pro-woman camp is asking for is that women are allowed the choice, not that women must be forced to abort.

Watching the adoption program on itv, there is a lovely little baby boy who they are having problems finding an adoptive home for because both his parents had mental health issues and this is putting potential adopters off.

There is nothing wrong with him.

So not all babies are snapped up.

I mean this like I know women personally who have made NO prior effort to stop pregnancy happening and just see abortion as a way of out trouble if that makes sense.

AND?!? Sorry, but it is HER BODY. She wants to gets fifteen abortions? Her choice. She wants to tattoo Miley's face on her arse, her choice. If it's her body, it's HER CHOICE. Judge all you want, but it's nothing to do with you when it's not your body.

That because most forced birthers don't give a shit once the cute little baby has been born

Love how the pro-abortion brigade abdicates all responsibility. I could give a flying @#$# whether you enjoy sex - no problems with that. But I don't see how knowing your own health is oppressive. Gosh how oppressive it is to pee on a stick ... Or get a blood test. Don't know how I managed it the past year, maybe I should go take a lie down.

Oh and maid - a large degree of brain functions develop in the first 3 yrs of life, and physical development doesn't stop until early 20s. Does that mean my 3yr old is less of a person than me?

Lay, the problem with delivering an unwanted baby alive is that there are already too many unwanted babies. A baby whose mother doesn't want it isn't getting a great start in life, by any standard.

I would dare to assume that women seeking third-trimester abortions - of healthy foetuses - actually have some serious problems going on: social, financial, emotional, physical, mental, and maybe the full set. It's not smart to send her home with that baby, so it goes straight into care: her distress is further increased, her problems aren't solved, and another infant's at the mercy of a cash-strapped care system.

Let's face it, if she's generally okay and has lovely relatives who will raise her child, she won't be asking for an abortion.

I'm not pro-abortion, zeeba. I don't want to force anyone to have abortions.

And who the hell is pro-abortion?

I don't think I've ever met a single person who has stood outside an antenatal ward with placards telling the women going in that they must have abortions.

I have, however, seen plenty of 'pro-life' types outside a Marie Stopes clinic, haranguing women and calling them abusive names.

I'm pro-choice but when people start taking the piss, ie having several abortions because they can't be arsed using contraception and don't see abortion as a big thing, then something should happen. I don't know what, but surely something.

Woman I know had 6 abortions. When she got pregnant with the 7th she decided to keep it because she was in a relationship. They had an argument one day and she told me she was going to have an abortion to 'piss him off and show him not to mess about with me'
She had the abortion.

I really don't understand the issue of repeated abortions

Of course it's oppressive to have to spend £££ on pregnancy tests and carry them out every month, and now you are advocating monthly blood tests???? For all sexually active females in the UK?

Mind-boggling.

Oh and maid - a large degree of brain functions develop in the first 3 yrs of life, and physical development doesn't stop until early 20s. Does that mean my 3yr old is less of a person than me?

What does 'personhood' have to do with your assertion that physical development is complete by 12-14 weeks gestation (which you've now said yourself is not true)? What is the significance of 'completing' physical development?

Interesting last question though...

Anya maybe it's an extension of the good girl/slut dynamic?

You can still be a good girl if you have say.... 2 abortions, but after that you're a feckless slut?

Who knows?

Must be CaptChaos

Are you shitting me???

It's a LIFE not a fucking tattoo??

Oh yes eta start murdeing puppies because you know "its your dog" yes it might be HER body but its not HER LiFE that she's ending!
It's opinions like yours that make protesters shout murderer!

Abortion isn't about your body its about another human being other than yourself! Are you saying that a mother has the right to kill her 2 year old because " she made it it came from her body" fuck off are you! and if you are then your one sick son a bitch.

Get real.

As previously said i'm not pro life at all and i agree abortion can be the right option but its not a decision that should be made lightly!!!! and women that treat it as though it is need some serious mental help!

if you don't want to get contraception (that includes men too!) then keep your legs closed or your knob in your pants and if you can't do that then yeah oddly enough your body is normally designed to make babies? bloody weird that!

I like that women and girls have to be these perfect beings - they are not allowed to be fallible, in any way.

Of course in real life women and girls, who are after all people, do not behave in an absolutely immaculately organised and sensible way at all times.

This is setting an impossibly high bar and then punishing women and girls who fail to meet it.

Oh and ones who were raped/abused as well because hmm well hopefully that sort of thing will all magically stop anyway so we don't need to worry about it.

anya really? I do. I'm pro choice, but I think someone who continually neglects their responsibilities to the point abortion is the only option.. Well that is a really big issue. From a medical and moral point of view.

I think the same of anyone who consistently needs medical intervention because of bad choices.

Oh-Kay then.......

And another one from the adoption program - the mother doesn't know who the father is, so that's a no.

Oh yes, all these people willing to take in babies. Oh. Wait