to think that howling at people that they are racist is not...

[fidelineish]

..the best way to challenge their thinking or change their views?

It crops up on here frequently and it is only going to become more frequent as UKIP campaigning steps up.

I was born and bred in England and I'm extremely patriotic. I'm proud of the English culture, the regional accents and our heritage. I honestly think England is the best country in the world. By definition that makes me racist because I believe England is superior to every other country!

Racism is not a dirty word, it's just it's been hijacked and banded about and used against anyone and everyone to illicit a response and force people to be embarrassed about their own national identity.

To discriminate against a race of people, like the Jews in Nazi Germany, is racist yes, but more importantly it's absolutely abhorrent! To discriminate against someone because they're black is despicable.
It all comes under the 'racist umbrella' but it's so much more than that, it's racist but more importantly it's vile and inhuman.

To want the best for your own country above any other country is only natural, it's racist by definition but it's patriotism, and it's national pride.

To want to limit immigration and put the indigenous population first isn't racist!

By definition that makes me racist

No it doesn't Remove. It makes you patriotic.

To want the best for your own country above any other country is only natural, it's racist by definition but it's patriotism, and it's national pride.

Errrm

To want to limit immigration and put the indigenous population first isn't racist!

And by 'indigenous' you mean...?

"By definition that makes me racist because I believe England is superior to every other country!"

That doesn't make you racist. It makes you patriotic. But it also means you possibly a bit ....blinkered.... In your view of England and other countries.

I was born and bred in England and I'm extremely patriotic. I'm proud of the English culture, the regional accents and our heritage. I honestly think England is the best country in the world. By definition that makes me racist because I believe England is superior to every other country!

That sounds like nationalism.

Why does that make you racist? English is not a race.

Maybe you are an Ultranationalist?

Racism is not a dirty word, it's just it's been hijacked and banded about and used against anyone and everyone to illicit a response and force people to be embarrassed about their own national identity

That sounds like you are saying racism had a positive origin?

To discriminate against a race of people, like the Jews in Nazi Germany, is racist yes, but more importantly it's absolutely abhorrent! To discriminate against someone because they're black is despicable
It all comes under the 'racist umbrella' but it's so much more than that, it's racist but more importantly it's vile and inhuman

Yes.

To want the best for your own country above any other country is only natural, it's racist by definition but it's patriotism, and it's national pride

To want to limit immigration and put the indigenous population first isn't racist!

How do you qualify who is indigenous?

Ooh, so many questions!

Ok, by indigenous I mean those born here. Those born here should take preference of those who have just moved here, regardless of colour or ethnicity. I don't believe in this first, second or third generation bollocks, if you're born here you're born here.

The Oxford English Dictionary broadly defines the word race as "a group of persons connected by common descent". I think that qualifies the English as a race of people, some will argue race is based on physical characteristics, I'd personally say that's decent rather than race but it's all down to personal interpretation.

Racism is defined as: The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:

I think England and the English race of peoples are more superior than every other country and race, and I want what's best for England. By definition that's racist, but it's also patriotic. Racism is just a word. Unfortunately it's a word associated with such vile and despicable behaviour it's used to shame anyone remotely patriotic.

You can't minimise racism by saying it is 'just a word' that is far too simplistic.

It is not that difficult to distinguish between patriotism and racism, one is the love of ones own country, the other is the hatred of a race other than your own.

If someone expresses their patriotism, I do not assume they are also racist, but sometimes the two do go hand in hand. Certainly not always though. But the two terms do have seperate meanings.

I think England and the English race of peoples are more superior than every other country and race

That is racism yes.

and I want what's best for England

That could be argued as being patriotic.

By definition that's racist, but it's also patriotic

The two points are seperate though.

"I think England and the English race of peoples are more superior than every other country and race"

In what ways?

What the heck is 'the English race of peoples' anyway?

well not in grammar obviously (sorry to be a pedant) but show me a 'patriot' and I will show you an idiot

I think England and the English race of peoples are more superior than every other country and race

What do you base this on? What's your evidence? How have you tested your assumptions?

Well we are at last recognized as being Cornish

Hahaha! English race of peoples was a slight dig at AmberLeaf after they said that 'English isn't a race'. Technically it is. If you really want to simplify different races then you could just say Caucasian, Mongoloid, Negroid and Australoid.

I think England is the most superior country on earth because it's where I was born and brought up and where I live. I'm proud to be a English, we have a fascinating history and a wonderful culture and our values are second to none. If I was born and raised in Japan then I'd no doubt have the same feelings about that country.

show me a 'patriot' and I will show you an idiot

The world is full of these idiots.

The UK is the only country I have lived in where it is cool to feel negatively towards your own nation and flinch from expressing pride in it.

Some if the smallest, poorest countries I know are peopled by citizens whose faces light up when they talk about their country, its flag, its customs and food, language and culture.

To read this thread, you'd think it was a hanging offence to be proud of Britain.

I think some of you should try living in other countries and expanding your horizons a bit.

"I think England is the most superior country on earth because it's where I was born and brought up and where I live."

Ah. You don't actually have a properly thought out reason then, you're just a bit thick.

Next!

I think some of you should try living in other countries and expanding your horizons a bit
I have lived in other countries, surprise surprise, and I still think that anyone who is proud of being English is a twat.
What did the British government do to the Chagossians? ever heard of them? no? try expanding your horizons a bit.

Some if the smallest, poorest countries I know are peopled by citizens whose faces light up when they talk about their country, its flag, its customs and food, language and culture
ah but they didnt come from countries who had wiped out countless 'native' populations and steamed in to various places and stolen anything of value and put it in their national museum did they?

Thank you, I am sufficiently well-travelled to distinguish between the acts of a nation's rulers and the pleasure and pride of its citizens.

I'm not sure there are many nations whose rulers do not have blood on their hands somewhere down the line.

That is clearly not what I meant.

anyone who is proud of being English is a twat

What a sad comment. I'm not English, but I can think if a myriad of reasons to be proud of this country.

I'm certainly proud of mine.

well good for you!
sure there are many nations whose rulers do not have blood on their hands, just that Britain?England is not one of them.
quite honestly it is shaming.
I usually claim to be Irish when overseas. and before anyone complains my father comes from there.

nigella I usually adore your rhetoric and well made arguments but I'm afraid your last post sounded like it was written by a cross sixth-former trying to provoke a stuffy uncle.

I have to go back to work now I'm afraid. Good afternoon to all.

backhanded compliment! yay!
you have a good afternoon and all xx

I'm not particularly patriotic. I was born in England live in Scotland and have also lived in other countries. People are people and I think that in general more unites us than separates us.
That doesn't mean that I think countries should have open borders. I think many countries can only hold a certain number of people before you run out of houses/ the roads get clogged up/ you concrete over the landscape and ruin it if you build more stuff.
We need to reduce the world population, support refugees fleeing from presecution or a land ruined by global warming, but otherwise not have more people coming into the country by immigration than emigrate unless we are sure we have the infrastructure to support them.
The EU free for all has led to people preferentially coming here because many people speak English as a second language and we have a good state support system and have traditionally assimilated foreigners well.

Martorana, are you for real? Insinuating I'm thick because I'm proud of where I'm from..... I presume you weren't born in and aren't living in England seeing as you seem to dislike it so much?

Nigellasdealer, why live in a country you so obviously hate and are ashamed of? You're hypocritical, talk about biting the hand that feeds you!

Sadly through history our rulers have behaved terribly, but we can't change the past. And since when have our rulers ever acted in the best interests of the population? England and it's people are great, government sadly isn't.

"Martorana, are you for real? Insinuating I'm thick because I'm proud of where I'm from..... I presume you weren't born in and aren't living in England seeing as you seem to dislike it so much? "

No, I wasn't insinuating you were thick because you are proud of where you're from (although it does seem a bit odd to be proud of an accident of birth). I was saying - not insinuating- that you were thick because you think that somehow that makes the place you come from superior to all the other places in the world. But I am now happy to suggest you are thick because of the last sentence in your post- which is too daft to comment on further.

igellasdealer, why live in a country you so obviously hate and are ashamed of
I do not hate this country but yes having studied history there is plenty to be ashamed of, you must be seriously blinkered to not see that. What do you think Hull, Bristol and Liverpool were built on? It's ok you dont need to answer it is a rhetorical question.