to think that howling at people that they are racist is not...

[fidelineish]

..the best way to challenge their thinking or change their views?

It crops up on here frequently and it is only going to become more frequent as UKIP campaigning steps up.

Actually Mistress you sound quite paranoid.

How would 'shit-stirring to bring out racist comments' even work.

People are either currently in possession of racist views or they aren't, they are either willing to express them publically or they're not, they will either be receptive to reason or they won't.

What difference does me suggesting attempting to reason with them make?

*publicly

Meh. Some good may have come of the misunderstanding. Someone who didn't know may have seen the post and used it to choose their party in the elections!

This is a bit late; I've been searching for the video since the post was made.

WetAugust

There is no point in even trying toexplain why those of you who shout 'racist' are so wrong. If I showed you the profiles of prospective UKIP candidates of various ethnicities I would be called 'racist' - that's already happened on MN. If I don't attempt to tell you that UKIP has prospective candidates of diverse ethnicities you remain in your blissful ignorance.

Were you talking to Godfrey Bloom on MN? He has quite strong opinions on the racist nature of making observations about the ethnic make-up of the party.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/sep/20/ukip-godfrey-bloom-calls-women-sluts

From 0.31 seconds.

Ooo this one's delicious, and very much wet's role model I think

Was the gay marriage causing floods something that was said on camera too? (Do none of them get media training?)

No. That was a letter penned by David Silvester to his local newspaper. (It was printed on 17/01/14) Somewhat more intentional and planned!

The Henley Standard doesn't host the letter itself any more, only the responses.

Here features extracts and a screenshot. www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/01/18/ukip-homophobic-gay-_n_4622332.html

A UKIP spokeperson is quoted as follows, either on or before 18/01/2014, as saying: "freedom to individual thought and expression is a central tenet of any open minded and democratic country.

"It is quite evident that this is not the Party's belief but the councillor's own and he is more than entitled to express independent thought despite whether or not other people may deem it standard or correct.

"That is what makes the United Kingdom such a wonderful, proud, diverse and free country."

On the 20/01/14, he was suspended.

On the 4/02/14 a UKIP spokeswoman said, “Because he was an elected official representing UKIP, we take the view that his expression of views was unacceptable and in order to distance UKIP from those views permanently and irrevocably, we have no choice but to expel Mr Silvester.”
www.henleystandard.co.uk/news/news.php?id=39470

Tilly you are a veritable encyclopedia and faster than google (well faster than my ham-fisted, early-hours efforts)

(I thought you were busy writing 'Divinity for Dummies' or somesuch)

Note this quote in the original Huff Post article.

"Ukip have reacted to the councillor's comments by telling HuffPost: "If the media are expecting UKIP to either condemn or condone someone's personal religious views they will get absolutely no response." "

They kept that up, then!

I should have put "A UKIP spokeswoman" in paragraph 4, btw. I wonder if it was the same woman frantically dealing with it all week!

So UKIP did the right thing?

No political party can afford to take that line. Leaving aside the abhorrence of the views.

No 'Divinity for Dummies' will be coming from me. I struggle on with Christian theology for the sake of annoying cold callers out of general interest, but after years and years of reading around the subject, I am still confused about Arianism and similar.

But if someone else will write it, I'll definitely buy it on Amazon!

But you were researching aspects of theology off the back off a thread? Or is there more than one industrious, intelligent, internet-savvy Tilly knocking about?

I'd buy it too.

UKIP followed their standard procedure as they've done with all most of the incidents I've noticed over the last five years or so.
Day 1: issue statement saying that candidates/representatives are entitled to personal views, which are separate from party policy.

Day 2-5: watch to see if the media and population are going to forget about it

Day 3-7: realise that the public are still outraged and suddenly act to distance themselves from the member of the party.

Senior members get a more lenient version of this protocol.

They are certainly not fast learner.

s

I have a shallow understanding of theology for general purposes, which means that when called for, I know where to start googling, and how to start refreshing my memory. And where to look up the technical terminology so I don't end up typing 'that thingy, trans-sub-umybob, you know, what happens during Holy Communion?" for transubstantiation!

Yes- nearly typing 'thingamibob' into serach engines is exactly my problem recently (temporary medication side effect). Really makes me appreciate that recall still matters.

But hey, someone clever and fast always turns up on any given thread

It's amazing; the obscure questions I've seen answered on MN!

Looking at this thread, Caruthers and other UKIP supporters seem to have slid gently away from explaining why it's OK to say that, faced with two refugees who have been threatened with murder, you will take the Christian one but send the Muslim one back to be murdered.

In the broad brush, maybe they seem similar? What I find interesting about UKIP is the sheer heights of support on day 1, whatever the statements, and the depths of rejection after the seemingly unexpected levels of public anger. If you look at my quotes, that is a 180 degree turn!

Disregarding my personal political viewpoints, if it was my job to manage UKIP or the conservatives, I would have thrown David Silvester out straight away. Did it really take UKIP three days to realise that blaming gay marriage for causing floods would remain an unpopular opinion?

The Conservative party statements over the Miller affair (well, that I saw, and as has been discussed on MN, us anti-UKIP voters don't pay enough attention to politics) took much more of a principled stance and held it.

Even at the end, 9/ 04/14, this is David Cameron's public response to Maria Miller's letter of resignation.

REPLY FROM THE PRIME MINISTER

9 April 2014

Dear Maria,

Thank you for your letter. I was very sorry to receive it.

I think it is important to be clear that the Committee on Standards cleared you of the unfounded allegations made against you, a point which has been lost in much of the comment in recent days. [Tilly's italics]

You can be extremely proud of your work in Government – as Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, as Minister for Women and as Minister for Disabled People.

You have been responsible for successfully handling two of the most controversial issues with which this Government has dealt. As Culture Secretary, you have played a critical role in advancing Britain’s proud record of respect and equality in piloting the Equal Marriage Act through Parliament and onto the Statute Book. There are many people in our country today, and there will be many in the future, who will always be grateful for this very important change, which you did so much to bring about. You have also handled the sensitive subject of press regulation with skill and dedication.

You can be very proud as well that you have led one of the most important infrastructure projects: many more premises are now able to access super-fast broadband . You have also ensured a lasting legacy for the Olympic Games.

As you leave the Government, you should be proud of your service on the Frontbench and in Opposition.

I am personally very grateful for the support you have always given me, and which I am sure that you will continue to give. I hope that you will be able to return to serving the Government on the Frontbench in due course, and am only sad that you are leaving the Government in these circumstances. [Tilly's italics]

David Cameron
www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/04/maria-miller-resigns-culture-secretary