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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that howling at people that they are racist is not...

590 replies

fidelineish · 23/04/2014 15:35

..the best way to challenge their thinking or change their views?

It crops up on here frequently and it is only going to become more frequent as UKIP campaigning steps up.

OP posts:
TillyTellTale · 25/04/2014 20:21

It's cracker. I don't want to have my post deleted.

Jinsei · 25/04/2014 20:21

Jinsei, the slavery abolition act came into force in 1833, that's 181 years ago. What has that got to do with modern Britain?

Others have already explained what it has to do with modern Britain. It doesn't become irrelevant just because you decide that you don't want to know.

Removetheblinkers · 25/04/2014 20:21

Just to put things into perspective, somewhere in the region of 70 million people died in WW1 and WW2, that happened in the last 100 years and has shaped modern society more than anything else in history.

Jinsei · 25/04/2014 20:23

Yes, the two world wars have had a huge impact on society as it is today. Your point being?

Original poster
fidelineish · 25/04/2014 20:25

I think Amber my objection is that 'White Privelege' is far from being a blanket phenomenon (but then I am probably bringing the vestiges of a Marxist analysis to this).

OP posts:
Original poster
fidelineish · 25/04/2014 20:27

You cannot ignore the fact that you (presuming you are white, I am mixed) may have been born with certain intangible advantages,

So many other forces at play though Just.

OP posts:
Original poster
fidelineish · 25/04/2014 20:27

Cracker? New one on me.

OP posts:
Removetheblinkers · 25/04/2014 20:28

My point being that the world wars have had more of an impact on society than slavery. The problem with slavery is it involved black people whereas the world wars was just white people being slaughtered. And it appears white people don't count in the grand scheme of things, we're privileged after all.

TillyTellTale · 25/04/2014 20:30

...

Just white people being slaughtered? Look, before you try and claim one historical event trumps another, try reading.

Jinsei · 25/04/2014 20:33

The problem with slavery is it involved black people whereas the world wars was just white people being slaughtered.

And now you're just showing your ignorance all the more. Why on earth would you think the world wars were "just white people being slaughtered"? I think you need some history lessons. Hmm

If you accept that some historical events have had an impact on modern society, then why the insistence that the history of slavery is now so irrelevant?

Original poster
fidelineish · 25/04/2014 20:34

Leaving aside the complicated history of global race relations for just a moment; do you all think racism in the UK is increasing or decreasing or static?

OP posts:
Justanotherlurker · 25/04/2014 20:35

So many other forces at play though Just.

I was responding to the rebutted white privilege argument, I wasn't disputing other forces (as that is a whole other discussion), is what I said wrong, in your opinion?

Original poster
fidelineish · 25/04/2014 20:35

The world wars was just white people being slaughtered.

That is a rather silly assertion.

OP posts:
Original poster
fidelineish · 25/04/2014 20:36

No Just. I meant that it is hard to be sure of the 'ground level' effect of WP because it is impossible to isolate.

OP posts:
PortofinoRevisited · 25/04/2014 20:38

Everything has an impact though surely? Going right back - it affects our language, our culture, our legends, our religious beliefs. You could argue that Henry VIII's desire for Anne Boleyn has had long lasting effects - well it has actually.

TillyTellTale · 25/04/2014 20:38

I am white. I have no axe to grind. My great-grandfather was at the Somme and survived. (He told my mother it was muddy, apparently.) The town I live in today, I live in because my grandmother was evacuated here.

Many black people today, just like me, owe their existence today to the fact that their great-grandparents and grandparents also survived the conflicts to have children. It was not just white people. Britain roped in the Colonies.

rabbitrisen · 25/04/2014 20:40

If 69 million people want to move on and 1 million dont, I think that the vast majority of 69 million should be allowed to do so.

The other 1 million might want another 500 years, or far more likely, they are not ever going to move on are they?

Jinsei · 25/04/2014 20:44

Leaving aside the complicated history of global race relations for just a moment; do you all think racism in the UK is increasing or decreasing or static?

My personal perception - and it's based on nothing more than a perception, no hard evidence - is that it's probably quite static, but that it is gradually becoming more socially acceptable to express it. I think the popularity of UKIP is fostering this, as well as a lot of islamophobic content in the tabloid press. It frightens me tbh.

Original poster
fidelineish · 25/04/2014 20:45

I'm not sure this is about people wanting to dwell on things rabbit. It's just alternative interpretations of how germane verious things are to modern social problems.

OP posts:
xpatmama · 25/04/2014 20:45

I was just musing that none of my grandparents were born in the UK even though I come from a very British and White family... Cos back in the day their families were in the 'colonies'. Am wondering where that'd leave me :-)

Original poster
fidelineish · 25/04/2014 20:47

^various

OP posts:
PortofinoRevisited · 25/04/2014 20:47

I am an EU economic migrant I suppose. I have moved to another country within the EU and am now subject to their tax/health/benefits rules. I believe if I stay there is some kind of pension reciprocation thing. I fully support the rights of workers to move within the EU.

You can't rock up in UK and claim a council house and full benefits, this is DM bollocks. I do think the UK needs to up its game a little though with regards to what can be claimed by who and when - like other European countries do already.

The major issue is the UK is wages and zero hours contracts imho. These things make it nearly impossible for people to move from benefits to working - no one is going to be keen on moving from benefits to a situation where there is no guaranteed income and the sheer fecking bureaucracy of signing on/signing off etc. I used to believe that UC was going to be thing that solved this, but it has been fucked up.

Jinsei · 25/04/2014 20:48

Rabbit, you seem to be missing the point. It isn't about whether or not people want to move on or not. It's about whether or not people are still feeling the effects of the past in their lives today. And like it or not, they are. How can we just move on when the effects are still being felt?

Original poster
fidelineish · 25/04/2014 20:48

Am wondering where that'd leave me :-)

Under a UKIP g'ovt? Or in all this theoretical stuff?

If it's the former, I wouldn't panic just yet Wink

OP posts:
Removetheblinkers · 25/04/2014 20:50

Ok, my point is people are banging on about something that happened 181 years ago as though it's still relevant today. It isn't. Slavery was quite rightly abolished and society has moved on.

Since slavery was abolished quite a lot has happened to shape modern society into what it is today, but if some of you were to believed that isn't so. 70 or so MILLION people were killed during the course of WW1 and 2 and that has had more of an impact on modern society than slavery, and that is a fact.

I mentioned the FACT that it was white people that were slaughtered during the WW's because some of you can't seem to appreciate that slavery was abolished nigh on 100 years before that event but you still harp on that black people are rightly feeling injustice to this day about slavery.

You've got to move on.