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AIBU?

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Original poster

To ask those of you who are pro life?

999 replies

Anonynony · 21/04/2014 14:49

How do you feel about friends who have had abortions? Can you maintain friendships with people who have had an abortion and no regrets?

One of my friends has stunned me, talking about another friend of ours who had considered an abortion and my friend said I'm so glad she didn't because I wouldn't have been able to stay friends with her Shock
I'm really surprised, I'm extremely pro choice and vocal about it but this doesn't bother my friend.
But what my friend doesn't know is that I also had an abortion and although I have no regrets I feel a bit strange around my friend now?

OP posts:
bumbleymummy · 22/04/2014 12:08

Good post MaidOfStars

itsbetterthanabox · 22/04/2014 12:11

I don't see how there can be a middle ground. You either see it as murder or not. So pro lifers who believe it is murder don't want to impose their views on murderers. If one of my friends killed a person I wouldn't be cool with them.

MaidOfStars · 22/04/2014 12:17

For a far more pithy summary:
Whether or not a foetus has moral worth cannot possibly depend on whether scientists have yet developed an effective artificial incubator

Source

fifi669 · 22/04/2014 13:50

To the poster that said why should women be punished for a contraceptive failure by having to carry the child. To me it's the same as a reluctant father having to pay maintenance in the same situation. When you have sex you know there is a risk of pregnancy no matter how careful you are. It's not about punishment but responsibility. I believe killing your unborn child for social reasons is the most selfish thing anyone could do.

No one would want a child or rape victim to suffer more than they have already. I can understand why people terminate in those circumstances though it's not something I would do myself.

basgetti · 22/04/2014 14:08

There is no comparison between paying maintenance and an intrusive and risky physical ordeal. Both genders have choices but because of the biological differences between them the ability to exercise these choices simply occurs at different stages. Women have the extra safeguard of abortion due to the alternative being total loss of bodily autonomy. I don't think the loss of autonomy of someone's wallet compares.

MaidOfStars · 22/04/2014 14:08

To me it's the same as a reluctant father having to pay maintenance in the same situation.

Perhaps we could compare the risk of maternal mortality/morbidity arising from pregnancy with the risk of paternal mortality/morbidity arising from having to pay money to someone else?

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 22/04/2014 14:30

i love the central paradox of the pro-lifers' position on this thread.

They COULDN'T POSSIBLY be friends with any woman who had a 'late' termination

But they would happily see that same woman be forced to birth & raise an unwanted child.

Not good enough to be friends with but good enough to be a mother, however reluctantly.

Cognitive dissonance right there.

fifi669 · 22/04/2014 14:32

There's a risk, it's not massive. There's a risk with abortion too like any medical procedure. The difference is abortion ways is and is meant to be fatal to someone.

fifi669 · 22/04/2014 14:33

Ways=always

Dawndonnaagain · 22/04/2014 14:33

I believe killing your unborn child for social reasons is the most selfish thing anyone could do.
Really. I think my Mum was a selfish cow for abusing me. I think that's far more selfish than aborting an unwanted child for whatever reason.
I also think that it's not your business as to the reasons why people abort. You do not decide which clothes I wear, which jewellery I wear, what make up I wear, if I have tatoos or piercings, so what the hell gives you the right to decide on whether I should be allowed to abort or not?

Dawndonnaagain · 22/04/2014 14:35

The difference is abortion always is and is meant to be fatal to someone some cells.

twofingerstoGideon · 22/04/2014 14:38

There's a risk, it's not massive.

Oh, that's okay then. (Sorry, next bit might be triggering for some:)

I know one woman who died in childbirth, two who have been left permanently incontinent and another who had such bad PND that she took her own life.

fifi669 · 22/04/2014 14:44

Some cells is the justification you need to say it's ok. That's fine, you run with that. It's not what I believe, I think the right to life overrides anything else.

Being abused by your parent is no reason to say abortion should be allowed. That's ridiculous. Do you wish you were dead?

twofingerstoGideon · 22/04/2014 14:45

Sorry, that's not meant to be a smileyface in my post. It was meant to be a close bracket. Apologies for any unintended offence.

twofingerstoGideon · 22/04/2014 14:46

Fifi, do you understand the difference between 'dead' and 'never born'?

twofingerstoGideon · 22/04/2014 14:48

I believe killing your unborn child for social reasons is the most selfish thing anyone could do.

You only need to read some of the benefit-bashing threads on MN to see that a sizeable majority think having more children than you can afford is incredibly selfish. You should see them in full froth about that.

basgetti · 22/04/2014 14:49

Why does the right to life override anything else? I don't understand that. What sort of life would anyone have anyway if they couldn't control their own bodies?

FrigginRexManningDay · 22/04/2014 14:54

I have posted before that I nearly died whilst having my last dc. Amniotic Fluid embolism. Every pregnancy and birth carries risk. So I would not and could not ask a woman to risk her life for a pregnancy she does not want. Savita Halappanivar died because she was denied an abortion when she requested one for the foetus she was miscarrying. There was still a heartbeat although there was no hope.

fifi669 · 22/04/2014 14:57

Of course I understand the difference. One was given a chance, the other wasn't.

You do have a choice over your own body. You can not get pregnant to start with! You make a life you should have to deal with the consequences. As I said earlier except for genuine medical reasons you should just take responsibility for your actions.

As I said on my original post I wouldn't unfriend someone who thought differently or had an abortion. I believe what I do and nothing will persuade me otherwise. They can have their own views.

basgetti · 22/04/2014 14:58

My mother was very ill when she had me and she died 20 months after I was born. I spent alot of my childhood thinking that if she hadn't had me she may have been able to have some treatment and stay alive for the 2 children she already had. As it happened and I later found out, it wouldn't have made any difference to her prognosis. But whilst I am glad to exist now, I would never have wanted to be born at her expense.

FrigginRexManningDay · 22/04/2014 15:00

fifi how exactly can a rape victim take responsibility?

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 22/04/2014 15:02

"social reasons" =

Not being able to afford to bring up a child
Being vulnerably housed
Losing job
Being in an abusive relationship
Having a substance addiction
Another child negatively impacting on the quality of life of your existing children or family.

Why are pro-lifers so keen that children grow up in these circumstances? Why are pro-lifers so compassionate about a foetus or an embryo but utterly indifferent to the real material conditions that many children grow up in - poverty, inadequate parents with substance addiction and mental health problems, lack of a job or infrastructure, lack of access to anything that might improve their lives.

That's why the blithe dismissal of "social reasons" makes me want to puke.

I literally cannot bear the idea of a child suffering at the best of times.
I have a 10 day old and I cannot read the news or turn on the TV at the moment because every day brings another upsetting story.

That women have a choice about bringing a child into the world and the idea that every child born is a much wanted and loved one, is part and parcel of being pro-choice.

LtEveDallas · 22/04/2014 15:02

I believe killing your unborn child for social reasons is the most selfish thing anyone could do

I don't.

I believe putting your own life at risk for another baby against medical advice is more selfish.
I believe that leaving your living children motherless trying to have another child is more selfish
I believe that having a child that you cannot afford to feed yourself is more selfish.
I believe that having a child that you cannot afford to bring up yourself is more selfish.
I believe that having a child to the detriment of your own MH is more selfish.
I believe that having a child to the detriment of your own physical health is more selfish.

There are lots of things that I think are more selfish than having a SToP.

...and as for the comparison between paying maintenance and having to be pregnant for 9 months, then go through giving birth, then go through 18 years of motherhood "on your own". Well, that's just bloody ridiculous.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 22/04/2014 15:05

You make a life you should have to deal with the consequences.

What wonderful compassion and care you show for the 'unborn child' there. Hmm

FrigginRexManningDay · 22/04/2014 15:05

Sometimes I think pro life means pro keeping women pregnant Tondelayo . There doesn't seem to be much sympathy to the situations children are born into.

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