To ask those of you who are pro life?

[Anonynony]

How do you feel about friends who have had abortions? Can you maintain friendships with people who have had an abortion and no regrets?

One of my friends has stunned me, talking about another friend of ours who had considered an abortion and my friend said I'm so glad she didn't because I wouldn't have been able to stay friends with her
I'm really surprised, I'm extremely pro choice and vocal about it but this doesn't bother my friend.
But what my friend doesn't know is that I also had an abortion and although I have no regrets I feel a bit strange around my friend now?

I think Pro life does naturally equate to anti-abortion, just as pro choice would imply pro abortion.

I wasn't going to post, then I came across that load of bollocks. Pro-choice is not Pro-abortion. Why do so many people struggle to understand this very simple concept?

There is a lot of the usual nonsense on this thread, but the best one is someone who knew someone who aborted at 12 weeks and somehow got to see the product of her uterus post-termination. Presumably the doctor presented her with that after the event.

Loving the people who say abortions should be judged on a 'case-by-case basis. I'm sure they'd get the most enormous kick out of sitting on some sort of judging panel where they get to determine what happens to another woman's body. Sickening.

Going back to OP, I would have no trouble remaining friends with anyone who had a termination for any reason at any stage. Simple fact is that it's her body and her choice. As I wouldn't be expected to birth the baby or raise that child to adulthood, I would consider it to be none of my business what she chose to do.

On the other hand, I would struggle hugely to remain friends with anyone who sought to interfere in anyone else's choices and thought it was okay to judge them.

I am 100% pro-woman.

Meaning that I support what the woman needs to do, why she needs to do it, and when.

And I absolutely do not judge. In any circumstance.

Thankfully I have great friends who haven't need to judge me or see me differently because I made a choice to terminate.

I also don't think I could be friends with someone who thought it was ok for a woman to abort to term for any reason. I just find that too disturbing.

And I find it too disturbing that in 2014 woman still want to control what other women do with their bodies.

Just returned to this fairly depressing thread and feel a tad more hopeful.

Yes yes yes to differentnameforthis,twofingerstoGideon

It's not about what you or I or anyone else thinks it's what the pregnant woman knows is right for her.

As for abortion being a case by case basis that makes me feel physically sick to be honest.

Smacks of good girl/bad girl judgments. And who the fuck is going to judge?

Op I would have told my friend exactly what I thought of her judgy gossipy spiteful little attitude.

I find it disturbing that in 2014 some people think that a foetus doesn't have its own body or a right to life until its head emerges from a woman's vagina.

bumbly I found comments on a previous thread very disturbing especially the one to the pregnant lady who is forced to carry a child for reasons you will remember are heartbreaking.

attitudes and words were disgusting. I expect you remember?

Very disturbing.

Pro choice is not pro abortion.

I am fully, entirely pro choice. as long as the baby is inside the woman, I will fight for her right to autonomy over her body and anything inside it.
I am not pro abortion. if we lived in an ideal world where people's situations were perfect and everyone wanted babies and there were no horrendous conditions that can leave people feeling they have no choice but to end the pregnancy, that would be great. No abortions would be fantastic in that ideal world. And I'm so not pro-abortion that when I had to make that choice, I couldn't go through with it and I kept my baby.
but just because it wasn't right for me, and just because I knew I had the support and love to make it work somehow, that doesn't mean everyone else does, and it doesn't mean that abortion is the wrong choice for everyone else, so I will defend ton the hilt the right of a woman to make that choice and to have that procedure done safely and legally as opposed to in a dangerous backstreet 'clinic', where much more would be at stake than the risk of offending some interfering busybodies who believe its their god-given right to dictate what women do with their bodies.

the body, do you mean the one where I expressed sympathy and had it thrown back at me? Or the other one that most of you here seemed to miss completely or intentionally overlook because it was more fun to keep falsely accusing someone of something? Yes, I remember.

If you look up the definition of pro-abortion, it says "supporting legalised abortion". Tbh that seems to be a more accurate representation of people's views than 'pro-choice' which implies that you support a woman's choice to terminate a pregnancy at any stage for any reason which most 'pro-choice' people do not support.

I find it disturbing that people don't accept the law and always, but always take these threads to the nth degree. Why does it have to be about taking itto the nth degree. Because there is so much more drama in that, isn't there.

There is no research that shows that people choose to terminate after 24 weeks unless for medical reasons.

Of 189,931 abortions carried out in 2011, 146 were after 24 weeks. All of those were carried out in NHS hospitals rather indicating that they were for medical rather than personal reasons.

Some facts from the Department of Health.
The total number of abortions was 189,931, 0.2% more than in 2010 (189,574) and 7.7% more than in 2001 (176,364). •

The age-standardised abortion rate was 17.5 per 1,000 resident women aged 15-44, thesame as in 2010, but 2.3% higher than in 2001 (17.1) and more than double the rate of 8.0recorded in 1970. •

The abortion rate was highest at 33 per 1,000 for women aged 20, the same as in 2010 andin 2001.

The under-16 abortion rate was 3.4 per 1,000 women and the under-18 rate was 15.0 per1,000 women, both lower than in 2010 (3.9 and 16.5 per 1,000 women respectively) and in the year 2001 (3.7 and 18.0 per 1,000 women respectively).

96% of abortions were funded by the NHS. Over half (61%) took place in the independent sector under NHS contract, up from 59% in 2010 and 2% in 1981.

91% of abortions were carried out at under 13 weeks gestation. 78% were at under 10 weeks compared to 77% in 2010 and 58% in 2001.

Medical abortions accounted for 47% of the total, up from 43% in 2010 and 13% in 2001.

2,307 abortions (1%) were carried out under ground E (risk that the child would be born handicapped).

"There is no research that shows that people choose to terminate after 24 weeks unless for medical reasons."

Because it is illegal.

FWIW the people taking the discussion to the nth degree are those who are suggesting that women should be allowed to have abortion to term for any reason.

Yes, thebody. I also remember that thread and the lack of sensitivity shown by bumbley to one poster in particular. It's best not to engage with her, really. On the same thread she accused me of writing several things I hadn't, before finally admitting she was 'mistaken' .

Pro-choice implies nothing more or less than allowing the woman the right to make any choice she wants regarding her own body. Whether that choice is termination (within the confines of the current law or to term for any reason depending on your beliefs), continuing the pregnancy and keeping the baby, continuing the pregnancy and giving the baby up for adoption, whatever, pro-choice is alll about allowing women the choice to decide what's best for them in the circumstances they find themselves.

I'd love for there to be no need for women to terminate pregnancies but that is pie in the sky dreaming. Pregnancies have been terminated throughout all of history and will continue to be in future. It's in everyone's best interests to allow it to happen in safe, clean, supportive places instead of a kitchen table in a backstreet 'clinic'.

I lurked on the last couple of threads about protests outside clinics and I have to say the lack of sensitivity (barring a cursory 'I'm so sorry') from Bumbley towards Babyfaced was absolutely horrible to read.

But you Bumbly are the one asking the question, pushing people for an answer to that. You cannot see the logical conclusion, and that is all it is, that if you allow a woman control over her own body, then it is total control.

You guys have great selective memories. I remember quite a lot of other things about that thread - the personal attacks, the bullying, the false accusations, the insults. I also remember being between a rock and a hard place because if I showed sympathy towards someone it was thrown back at me and if I didn't I was accused of being insensitive. Yep, I remember it all very well.

Interesting to see that (with the exception of one poster) this thread has been more civilised. I guess it's not as easy to gang up against more than one person.

Ahh, Gideon* I keep getting accused of bullying whenever I state a fact.

"Pro-choice implies nothing more or less than allowing the woman the right to make any choice she wants regarding her own body." But legally, that choice is restricted at a certain point (24 weeks for healthy pregnancies) so the woman is only allowed to make a 'choice' up to a point.

You missed out the bit where I said within the confines of the law or to term depending on your beliefs. You copy and paste selectively a lot.

plum, Yes, people tend to select the parts of people's post that they are addressing. The law puts restrictions on women's choices after a certain point. The law is only 'pro-choice' up to a point.

and that's the point. She should be allowed to make a choice. That's it. Her body, her choice. Legally there are things in place to prevent what you worry about. Making it legal to allow abortions up to term, for any reason, doesn't mean that people will exercise that option. You know that, I know that, but you persist in making me out to be a bully and an ogre.

The thing is Bumbly and I have tried being calm, pleasant, polite, is, as was pointed out earlier, you are like a dog with a bone. You try, no matter what, and without empathy, to paint abortion in the worst possible light. Despite the fact that it says up there 78% of abortions were carried out at under 10 weeks you paint a totally inaccurate picture of abortion. I shan't repeat the language used, but it's abominable, completely and utterly abominable. You are happy to stir things up, to bully other people (I know you don't think you do, but you do, take a look at the reaction when you accused me, and the reaction when you are accused) seemingly without qualms. You'd get a lot further on these threads if you backed down occasionally. If instead of saying 'oh you're trying to shut down discussion' you occasionally said: 'oh, we're shutting down the discussion for good reason. That would gain you respect. But hey, you carry on hurting other people because at the end of the day the gain for you is...
What?

In response to the OP as first posted, I'm pro life. I won't have anything to do with the abortion process. A friend asked me to attend the clinic with her, she knows my views and by a twist of fate it was booked for my birthday. I politely refused, stated why and apologised. We're still friends.

The only grounds I see that justify abortion are medical grounds. By that I mean physically the mother's life is at risk or the baby will not survive or will have no quality of life due to severe disability. I don't believe someone's right to choose what happens to their body overrides another's right to life. The further on in the pregnancy, the more firm my views.

How often is it said on MN that a guy risks pregnancy anytime he has sex and so should accept the consequences? Yet a woman doesn't have to.

Bumbley on the other thread there was a poster who had miscarried an unwanted pregnancy. You weren't caught between a rock and a hard place as you didn't need to comment at all. But you couldn't resist a nasty little dig which was horrible to read. Stop turning yourself into a victim.

How do you feel about friends who have had abortions? Can you maintain friendships with people who have had an abortion and no regrets?

To turn that on it's head. I have recently been 'unfriended' by someone who is anti-woman because I stated that I believe that women have the right to choose what happens to their bodies. I found it sad that she turned out to be such a controlling misogynist, but I won't miss her too much.

I would find it very difficult to maintain a friendship with someone who believes that women should be unable to have bodily autonomy from a certain cut off. She found it impossible to maintain a friendship with someone who believes that women are human too.

No biggie.

As said, its an odd thing abortion because when does a foetus become 'viable'? The law says 24 weeks, but there have been cases of babies surviving being born before that

But only with a whole raft of medical intervention. Personally I do not believe that the term "viable" is helpful. If a foetus was born at 24 weeks, would it survive without medical intervention? If it was wrapped up warm and placed in a cot, but had no other treatment would it live? No. It's only 'viable' because of medical progress.

I said earlier I support the legal aspect of the 24 week limit because I understand that children have been born and (with a whole load of medical intervention) have lived at that limit. I do not think that is an absolute though, as without medical intervention than a foetus is unlikely to survive - I believe that SToP should be provided as early as possible and as late as necessary

So I guess that means I support the womans right to SToP to term - or at least until the foetus is born strong and well enough to not need any medical treatment. It's not an absolute though is it - some will need treatment earlier, some will need treatment later. My DD was born slightly prematurely but was kept in SCBU for a month as she wasn't strong enough to go home. She was 35 weeks, but the growth and development of 30 weeks. Had she been left alone she would have died.

It's why we need a legal limit. There are too many variables to take each pregnancy/termination on a case to case basis and the waiting and faffing about time is bad enough as it is. Making a judgement individually would take longer.

Women should be allowed to make their own decsions about their own bodies without judgement, coersion, threats or delays.