to be uncomfortable with a naked incontinent toddler?

[prudenceprude]

We visited family yesterday. Their two yo dd stripped off after dinner, pooed on the floor and then ran around naked for the rest of the afternoon.

Their house, their rules and I would never have said anything but we are contemplating not visiting for a while.

They made no attempt to dress her and found it hilarious. My 11yo ds1 was mortified, I was more worried about the hygiene factor.

Aibu and a prude? I'm generally very laid back but felt really uncomfortable. I'd be fine with naked kids in the paddling pool in the garden, for eg, or just out of the bath for a run around, but stripping off after dinner, shutting under the table and then spending the afternoon flollopping about naked with no attempt to dress her or even put pants on her made me feel a bit queasy.

Is it me?

[Thurlow]

Gin: part of parenting is teaching them when it is appropriate to be naked and when to be clothed That's a very valid point and I think I agree - it's just good manners to generally be appropriately dressed.

It's a fine line, though, isn't it, between manners, modesty, and teaching your children to be relaxed, comfortable and not have any hang ups?

This is one of those issues that makes me wish parenting came with a manual I was vociferously arguing on a thread the other day that it really isn't inappropriate for a toddler to see you naked and then try and mimic behaviours such as wiping your bottom or opening a sanitary towel, or to touch and express curiosity in your public hair etc. My personal definition of parenting is that it is fine for them to be curious, and good for a family to be relaxed around each other, and healthy for children to grow up without any major hang ups about their body.

Yet as much as I've let DD run around naked in a friend's garden in the summer, as much as if I have, say, a close friend over for dinner they might help me bathe DD and all the nudity that entails, to me there are still the manners of being vaguely dressed at a nice meal around the table.

I feel rather confused now!

[ProudAsPunch92]

Sorry did I read that right? You think it's OK for a toddler to touch your public hair?!

[NeedsAsockamnesty]

Thurlow

Did you miss the massive PANTS nspcc campaign?

[spanky2]

No nudity before potty training here after ds1 as a toddler pooed on his bedroom carpet. Mind you he was so revolted when he realised he wasn't wearing a nappy to catch his poo it potty trained him! I don't mind nudity when it is just us but not in front of anyone else. The poo and lack of wiping sounds very unhygienic. Not funny either.

[FamiliesShareGerms]

Didn't Thurlow say it isn't appropriate to touch?

[ProudAsPunch92]

FamiliesShare Nope, quite the opposite:
^ t have any hang ups?

This is one of those issues that makes me wish parenting came with a manualI was vociferously arguing on a thread the other day that it really isn't inappropriate for a toddler to see you naked and then try and mimic behaviours such as wiping your bottom or opening a sanitary towel, or to touch and express curiosity in your public hair etc. My personal definition of parenting is that it is fine for them to be curious^

This actually concerns me!

[Gruntfuttock]

Thurlow said :-

"I was vociferously arguing on a thread the other day that it really isn't inappropriate for a toddler to see you naked and then try and mimic behaviours such as wiping your bottom or opening a sanitary towel, or to touch and express curiosity in your public hair etc."

So she was arguing that none of those things are appropriate.

[WildThong]

Double negative isnt inappropriate = appropriate

[Gruntfuttock]

Oh yes, Silly me. I was reading it as "isn't appropriate". Sorry about that

[HomeIsWhereTheGinIs]

I think there are two different issues being discussed here. The first is ensuring your children don't have hang ups about their bodies. I honestly don't think there needs to be a huge amount of nudity in the house for that to happen. I don't remember ever seeing my parents naked but they brought us up to be confident in our bodies, to like them and to know when it was appropriate to show / hide them. I don't think that you need to be naked in front of other people (or dinner guests) to teach that. But each to their own, if people feel the need for their toddlers to be naked at home, fine, whatever makes you happy. The point is, this is a question of what you do at home, when you're alone.

The second issue, which really is quite different, is whether or not you allow the same nudity around guests. In my mind this isn't just missing an early opportunity to teach children how to be polite and appropriate around other people that aren't their parents, but it's also essential if you want to put your guests at ease. A PP mentioned that some people simply don't feel comfortable with toddlers running around naked. You may think that they're missing out on something or that they're wrong, but your opinion on how they should feel about naked small children isn't the point. The point here is that if they're your guests, it's your job as host to make them feel comfortable. So for the love of God, please put a nappy on your child whilst your guests are eating. It won't make them feel repressed, it'll teach them manners, and your guests won't feel uncomfortable.

On the third issue, that of poo being found amusing, I remain disgusted. For the parents to do anything other than apologise and to take steps to prevent it happening again is unthinkable. It's horrendous for them to expect their guests to find their child defecating next to food adorable.

[ProudAsPunch92]

^ this ^

[badidea]

Wow..

[Thurlow]

You say something off-hand on here...

Obviously I don't mean you walk around the house saying "here, DC, have a look at this, what do you think, have a feel" But if I'm in the bath and my young toddler touches my pubic hair, what am I going to do, slap her hand away and say "NO, GET OFF"? Things like that happen sometimes, you just don't make a fuss about it - the same way that I wouldn't make a fuss if my toddler DC had no clothes on in front of guests or make them feel they had done something bad - but I would put some clothes on them.

I meant it as in within your house, sometimes your young children are around you when you get dressed, or go to the loo, or you have a bath with them, sometimes they touch things or mimic behaviour.

I was just musing to myself how the original OP made me think and how it raised different and interesting thoughts. That I'm comfortable sharing a bath with a 2.2yo, how she'll follow me into the loo sometimes if I don't shut the door etc, but that I wouldn't be comfortable with her running around naked inside the house in front of a load of guests.

[ProudAsPunch92]

Thurlow If I was in the bath and DS touched my private area I would say "No you don't touch mummy there"! What you are teaching your child is that it is OK to be touched in their private area! Did you not see the Underwear rule a while back?!

Sorry OP, this went slightly off topic.

[Thurlow]

Sure, I would probably say that now - now that she actually has the language skills to understand that concept. I'm not going to scare a not very verbal toddler by shoving them away. And right now, on a pre-potty trained child, it actually is alright for them to be touched in their 'private area' because people change her nappies. Or should I tell her to start telling the childminder that it's private and can she stop cleaning her up please? Let her just get on with it herself?

I'm well aware of the pants campaign. Simple conversations to keep children safe. But not entirely relevant when talking about a child who can't talk properly yet. Young children are curious and peculiar little things and very occasionally they do something like strip off in front of their family or, yes, touch you somewhere private when you are in the shower. It's up to you as the parent to find an age appropriate way of dealing with it.

But I should have remember not to mention any of this on MN given a few recent threads where it seems even kissing your children on the lips is dodgy...

[motleymop]

I think it sounds bloody awful. I agree with you. I'd say it sounds like a chimpanzees in a zoo, but I would not have an issue with the chimpanzees.

[ProudAsPunch92]

I don't find being naked "dodgy". I don't find kissing your children on the lips "dodgy". I do, however, find not thinking it's inappropriate for a child to touch your pubic hair quite shocking, actually.

[clippityclop]

YANBU. They were rude to allow this in front of guests. Completely inappropriate and inexcusable.

[motleymop]

Sorry I mis-read your post and thought there were two toddlers, rather than one. So- chimpanzee (singular)!! Anyway, it sounds properly hectic and the shitting is repulsive.

[Thurlow]

And that's fine, proud, everyone has different opinions. I don't encourage it, it has happened maybe twice, it was my young DC expressing the same curiosity at seeing something she was unfamiliar with as she expressed when she first saw beards, bald men and men with long hair, I wasn't going to tell her off for that when she was at an age where the only "don't/stop" she understood meant that she was doing something deliberately naughty or dangerous and was being told off. There are plenty of things I read about other people or families doing on here that I wouldn't be comfortable with. There are comments higher up the thread that would be a step too far for me.

I merely brought it up in the first place as I found it interesting what the line is in terms of what is and isn't appropriate, and how this made me think about our own lines. Like I said, we don't make a big deal of clothes/no clothes but a toddler running around in the house with no clothes on for no reason would make me feel a bit uncomfortable. That reaction surprised me, hence why I was just musing on it.

[girliefriend]

YANBU - Can't believe that some posters think that it was o.kay

Apart from the fact that its gross (I would have probably puked on my pudding) to have a toddler take a crap on the floor why you are eating - i would have been worried that the kid was cold

They could have put a nappy and t.shirt on - it would have taken 2 seconds.

[ProudAsPunch92]

Thurlow It's because you used the term "toddler" in your initial post, it's entirely different being a baby under 18 months. We went slightly off track anyway, and after reading your last post about why you brought it up in the first place I kinda get where you're coming from now :)

[Thurlow]

Toddler is such an annoying word sometimes, isn't it? I've been told off on here before for saying "26mo" when actually that's more helpful than the catch-all toddler!

[MoominsAreScary]

My friend has been telling me off for calling ds4 a baby, apparently he has been a toddler since he started walking at 12 months

[Mushypeasandchipstogo]

I am with you with this one OP.