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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

josie cunningham.

434 replies

CunningAtBothEnds · 20/04/2014 12:56

I have read an article on the above where she states despite being 18 weeks pregnant and pleased up until now she will be having an abortion to "further her career" namely to qppear on big brother.

whether this is morally ok is one thing but AIBU to ask if an abortion for the reasons she gives is legal? i suppose its similar to someone saying its not the right time, just more brazen?

(I consider myself pro choice btw I just find her apparent callousness a bit tough to take)

OP posts:
TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 23/04/2014 22:26

Was coming on to post, but Billy has nailed it.

Christ.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 23/04/2014 22:27

What if a SAHM wants to get an abortion? "Sorry love, no career, no excuse"??

FiftyShadesOfGreen4205 · 23/04/2014 22:37

She's fucked now. She has been completely done over by the gutter press. From her twitter she seems quite articulate but very naive. Horrible, vacuous types like Nicola McLean (who that?) and Dr dickhead are bullying her in order to make themselves appear paragons of virtue to their thousands of nodding, arselicking, dribbling followers.

But where can this woman go from here? What's left for her? The whole thing makes me shudder and fear for what we are becoming thanks to this trial by twitter and horrible newspapers.

Horsemad · 23/04/2014 22:40

Can I just clarify: I am pro choice. Always have been, always will be.

I have a pathological hatred of all 'sleb wannabes' and to be so blatant about her reasons for a termination does not sit well with me.

But, if she can sleep easy at night, then good for her.

SolidGoldBrass · 24/04/2014 00:26

But why should anyone give a flying fuck about her reasons for terminating her pregnancy? It's no one else's business. What happens to her body has no effect at all on anyone else's fertility, anyone else's children, anyone else's life - apart from the fact that vicious morons might use, or want to use, her as an example of why women should not be allowed control over their own bodies.

ShadowsCollideCantLogInToMN · 24/04/2014 01:15

Exactly, SGB. I'm pro-choice. End of. Not 'I'm pro choice but...' or 'I'm pro choice if...' I'm just pro choice. DP and I are currently dealing with the fact that we will never have biological children. I still don't have any right to have an opinion as to what other women choose to do with their own bodies. I actually get really fucked off with the 'there are women desperate to have children' argument, as used upthread by another poster (can't be arsed to go back and check which one). FFS. State your case, make your argument, but don't use me and my inability to have children to make it.

I honestly don't care why the woman who is the subject of this thread wants an abortion. I only care that she is free to make that choice, and has access to safe abortion.

Horsemad · 24/04/2014 06:56

And on the flip side, why shouldn't people give a flying fuck?

Luckily in this country we are permitted an opinion. She's allowed her choice and others are allowed their opinions.

Imagine a life where we weren't.

sashh · 24/04/2014 07:13

Cornettoninja

Self esteem and back story I can understand, I'm exactly the opposite, I have turned down chances to be on TV.

The thought makes me cringe, and that probably has a lot to do with my background.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 24/04/2014 07:31

I'm pro-choice. Full stop. It's her choice, her body. Not mine.

Martin Robbins nails it:

What makes the "debate" around Josie Cunningham so disturbing is that it refuses to even acknowledge the idea that access to abortion is a basic human right, or that women are entitled to choose what they do with their own bodies. If we fail to defend Cunningham, then we accept that only those women who are "deserving" enough should be allowed to have an abortion. And if we accept that, then it's only a matter of time before others are deemed undeserving as well.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 24/04/2014 08:12

Well said Sabrina and Martin.

I find it extra worrying that this is an 18 week abortion under the spotlight. Iirc parliament debated a reduction to 20 weeks and kept the limit the same. This is well within the law and would have been within even if the law had changed.

PrimalLass · 24/04/2014 08:16

It becomes people's business when she chooses it to be by selling her story to the papers.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 24/04/2014 08:38

No, it doesn't. You can have an opinion on her as a person, you can have an opinion on whether you would have an abortion in her shoes, what you can't do is say whether or not she "deserves" an abortion, any more than you can say whether she "deserves" to drive her car on public roads or be treated by a GP. The only people who can judge whether or not she can access legal abortion services are the two doctors who need to sign off.

FiscalCliffRocksThisTown · 24/04/2014 08:47

I think she has managed to get to a new low level of sleb.

Jordan almost seems royal now.

whatever next, people selling their granny on TV and beating up their mum, to be famous? idea for a new reality show "How far would you go be famous?"

That's where it feels we are heading!

PrimalLass · 24/04/2014 11:27

what you can't do is say whether or not she "deserves" an abortion, any more than you can say whether she "deserves" to drive her car on public roads or be treated by a GP

Actually, I can pretty much say all of that. It's called free speech.

PrimalLass · 24/04/2014 11:28

FTR, I am very much pro choice. But still allowed to find it really distasteful that someone would use this situation for 5 minutes of very cheap fame.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 24/04/2014 11:31

You dont know she did that.

Tabloid Journalists are cunning
They probably got her to open up by being really sympathetic and promising a lovely supportive article.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 24/04/2014 12:56

I find Peter Andre pretty distasteful, but he deserves as much access to UK services and laws as any other citizen. Ditto Nigel Farage, John McCorick (sexist racing commentator) et al.

WhitegoldWielder · 24/04/2014 12:59

I'm with SGB, Sabrina and Lt - don't be fooled by the nasty women- hating aspect to this story. Some parts of the press are really relishing their manipulative behavior here without the obvious question being asked - Why publish in the first place?

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 24/04/2014 13:24

"Woman considers abortion well within the legal limit" is news on a par with "Woman has tits: look, here they are", isn't it?

PrimalLass · 24/04/2014 13:47

You dont know she did that.

She started hinting at it on Twitter.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 24/04/2014 16:38

Who cares if I think fame seeking or not is a legit career it only matters that she does

It's legal it pays money to many people it is a perfectly valid career

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 24/04/2014 17:11

If she was having an abortion because she was unable to make money as a sex worker whilst pregnant and post birth, where would she fall on the judgeometer then?

70isaLimitNotaTarget · 24/04/2014 17:47

I'm wondering who suggested
"Oh, I know, lets get a photo of you with some thin tape crossed over your norks. Bit like Jodie Marsh did, But you use NHS logo tape, since the NHS paid for them"

"Oh, yes, that'll get me in the tabloids, good idea" Hmm

bumbleymummy · 24/04/2014 20:11

I think it's more that she's making a bit of a mockery of the current abortion laws. The UK does not have 'abortion on demand', or at least it's not supposed to.

"Subject to the provisions of this section, a person shall not be guilty of an offence under the law relating to abortion when a pregnancy is terminated by a registered medical practitioner if two registered medical practitioners are of the opinion, formed in good faith—

(a)that the pregnancy has not exceeded its twenty-fourth week and that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated, of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman or any existing children of her family; or

(b)that the termination is necessary to prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman; or

(c)that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk to the life of the pregnant woman, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated; or

(d)that there is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped.]"

Two doctors need to be of the opinion that one of the above criteria is met. Given that 'wanting to be a celebrity' is not one of the above criteria, she is going to have to lie/distort the truth to fall into one of the other categories. Given that her real reasons for wanting a termination have been plastered all over the place, I can't see how two doctors are supposed to sign off on it in good faith.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 24/04/2014 20:16

"that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated, of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman or any existing children of her family;"

That is what the doctors have to agree on. If a woman does not want to be pregnant, then the risk to her mental health of continuing the pregnancy is highly likely to be greater than the risk to her mental health if the pregnancy were terminated.