To not invite my family to DS's Christening.

[Writerwannabe83]

Me and DH have a 3 week old baby and the subject of getting him Christened was raised a lot during the pregnancy. My DH is eager to get it done whereas I'm not. Neither me or DH are remotely religious and he only wants it done to open up schooling options. Although he did once say his parents would be disappointed if we didn't Christen DS.

After numerous discussions I have said that seeing as DH is so adamant then he can get DS Christened. I actually googled whether both parents need to be there because the whole farce of it does not appeal to me at all. Unfortunately I would have to be present.

All of my family are non-religious. When I told my mom we were getting DS Christened she pulled a face and said, "You don't expect me to be there do you?" I absolutely don't and told her this. I said I wouldn't be going if I had a choice.

To be honest none of my family would be interested - I'd be embarrassed at making them sit through it - so I've told my DH I probably won't even invite them.

DH was not too impressed.

But seriously, I'm not religious and don't believe in the Ceremony and nor do my family so what's the issue if they're not there?

As far as I'm concerned it can just be me through force, DH, his parents and the people he wants as Godparents. I've said there's no way we're making a big song and dance about it. Definitely no gifts or after party

I'm cringing at just the thought of it all....

Look, I know that lots of people do get their children baptised just to get into schools. But, as a Christian, I find your husband's attitude extremely offensive. You and he will be standing in a church making promises you have no intention of keeping to a god you don't even believe in. Just think how disrespectful this is towards the congregation who will be there. You'll probably then go home and discuss with each other and your friends how funny it all was and how of course you didn't believe a word if it.

I appreciate that you might want your child to go to a Christian school, but if you can't go to a church with at least an open mind then I'm sorry, I don't think these schools are an option open to you.

I think my husband's views on Catholic schools are probably quite relaxed because the one he teaches at isn't very intense - I.e they go to Mass every now and then but that's it, he has never mentioned there is any intense Catholic teachings going on so maybe he isn't aware that it happens in Junior Schools. I will try talking to him about it again later today and see if he's happy for DS to go to a school where he will be on the receiving end of frequent exposure to the religious aspect.

It's just so hard as although I don't want it done, he does - and where is the rule that what mom says goes? Why do I get the final say? He's just as much a parent as I am.

Writer, I agree that you don't get any more of a day than your husband, and in families where one patent is a Christian or even is leaning towards a belief in God, I think it is right that the other patent compromises. Most priests would be very understanding and supportive if this were the case. However, when your husband is openly expressing disdain for a faith in God, I don't think that changes things!

Sorry, I mean I dothink that changes things.

Adding to my previous post, my DH is/was a Catholic. As in was brought up Catholic but renounced the whole shebang when his Dad died. So when I said I wanted DS1 to be christened, he said if it had to be done, then he'd prefer it to be in a Catholic church. I couldn't do that - I couldn't lie to a priest about bringing my child up in the Catholic traditions and beliefs - I would sooner have missed out on the christening entirely than go to a Catholic church to do it. My old Methodist church was much more relaxed about it all and the Minister told DH that he could just not answer any of the questions about "agreeing to bring your child up in the ways of the Christian faith" so that made DH happier.

However - you are having to contend with the whole Catholic thing as well, Writer and I agree with everyone else that that makes it a game changer - you might not even be able to get a priest to agree to the christening under your circumstances anyway.

I agree with Bear - fine that you're a partnership and both parents are equal. If your husband's faith was important to him, it would be right that you take that that into account when making your decision. Perhaps you might agree to a christening because you love your husband and it means a lot to him. But I don't think his reasons are good enough. Especially because of the link to your child's education. In your op, you said he thinks it will 'open up schooling options' but from what you've said later, it sounds less like opening up options and more like restricting DS's schooling options to a particular faith school. It's not fair for him to downplay the significance of a tiny little low-key christening if it then means that his view comes first when you make future important decisions about your child - including first holy communion, confirmation, selecting the school he goes to, etc. So you're right that both parents should be involved in making decisions like this. But you're also right to make sure your viewpoint is heard and that DH is listening and not just nodding and singing 'blah blah blah' in his head.

And definitely double check the standing/results/ofsted of the Catholic schools. Around here, the Catholic ones have bad results/ofsteds etc and only the actually catholic people use them. Nobody else would want to send their children there.

For ethos or results.

"I think my husband's views on Catholic schools are probably quite relaxed because the one he teaches at isn't very intense..."

My eldest DC had to walk to the cathedral and back to school for Mass - 1hr 30 round trip. I didn't realise so didnt cancel swimming that night. My bad. The next day, when DC (aged5) was asked to help tidy up, they replied "no thank you - I'm very tired from yesterday". I was there helping so I heard. Straight onto the difficult board and a referral to the deputy head.

It is not relaxed. (I did have a quiet word with the teacher)

My daughter came home from her Catholic primary school one day and asked me why Jesus loved the other children but not her.

Forgot to say, OP there's a big difference between what your husband is proposing and you going to someone else's baptism. My DS is being baptised in a few weeks. My friend wouldn't miss it for the world despite being a witch. Although she told me she'll be sitting next to the fire extinguisher 'just in case'.

My reluctancetogoto my friends son's Christening is for the same reason really, just the hypocrisy of it all. My friend and her DH are not at all religious, never been to church in their life, and got their daughter christened do she could go to the local Christian school. They never went to church again after the Ceremony. They have since moved to another area and their daughter is in a non-faith school, but education was the reason behind their choice. I just felt very uncomfortable watching my friends make vows they had no intention of keeping and that as part of the congregation we had to make promises too. I have asked her why she is getting her 2nd child christened seeing as he will no doubt go to the same non-faith school as his sister and she said, "Well it doesn't seem fair to have one done and not the other."

Although I'm not religious myself I completely understand what a huge part of people's lives it can be and how meaningful it is to those who have a faith - so it just makes me uncomfortable to be in situations where religion is being made a mockery off by hypocrites pretending it means something to them when really they are doing it for an ulterior motive or crappy reasons.

You have masses of insight writer - at my church baptisms form part of the main service once a month. I believe that the congregation, myself and DH included, wholeheartedly to welcome the child and the family in the name of Christ, accept that it's right for all the front pews not to be available to the families with young children that usually sit there so that the baby/child's family and friends can see best, and swallow the feeling that the amount of cleavage and legs usually on show is inappropriate, and many make attempts to talk to the family after the service.

Of course, the family don't usually want to talk to the rest of the church, and the majority we never see them again. Hypocrisy - yes, but it gets people through the door, and some of them do come back and get involved in the various children and family's activities in the church. It's worth it for the ones that stay. But I often wonder how the attendees feel, or if they care. Hearing it from you has been really eye-opening.

You don't have to say the promises, in fact it's probably best you don't, at your friend's Christening. If you feel strongly, then tell her you don't want to go - you are well thought out and consistent and reasonable. Have courage in that. It's not that you don't care for her, or her children, and that is really clear.

Enjoy your newborn, remember that you have got hormones flying around, be kind to yourself, and I hope that you and your DP can resolve this.

If no one believes why would you get him christened?

Mine are christened but I believe. My SIL refused to come because she doesn't believe, I was ok with that but she changed her mind last minute. She then had her dd christened, asking me to be godmother as she thought it would be nice to have someone who actually believed to be involved, WTAF!!? I agreed to keep peace in that family.

This is a little off topic OP, sorry.

But can I just say (as the daughter of a teacher) that your teen may not want to attend the school where her dad teaches! You may go through all this soul searching & all through the Catholic primary to reach an age where your child flatly refuses to attend your DH's school.

I can attest that being a teacher's daughter is hard, you miss out on all the main roles in the plays, the academic awards all because your parent has to be seen to not be playing favourites. My mum told me that I would have been House Captain or Head Girl if she hadn't have taught there, but I wasn't as I was automatically disqualified so other parents didn't shout 'Favouritism'. I also had to go a bit further to be seen as acceptable to my peers & to cultivate any kind of coolness. Think drinking & drugs.

I would not allow my child to go to a secondary where I was a teacher, it means that your child is always 'Mr X's daughter' & isn't seen as a person in her own right. If there is a party then as a teacher's child you are not trusted to know about it in case you tell your parent, you are not included with the IT gang & it has a major impact on your social life. As I said before you have to go further than most children to prove you are cool & to prove you won't go running to your parent when things get hard or if someone disagrees with you.

Writer is your DS going to make his communion and confirmation? Did your DH? How will you feel about your child having religious education in school?

There is generally a mandatory pre-christening course where you are given advice on how to raise your child within the Church and talked through original sin (how babies are born with sin because of Adams sin - rebelling in Eden). I dare you to try and keep your mouth shut and your blood not boiling at being told that your baby is a sinner.

I had neither of my children christened, I won't send them to a faith school, I am not very religious. Unless you are willing to commit to the faith you are about to indoctrinate your child in to playing quite a large role in their school life, please think carefully about this.

Also, your attendance at mass every week is noted. The priest will ask you to make yourself known to him at the end of the service each Sunday.

Is the ceremony different for the Christian faith and the Catholic faith? I don't even know?

Catholicism IS Christianity. So is Protestantism.

Clearly not your thing. Which is fine, obvs. You must feel so uncomfortable with a christening, though.

I really can't see you getting a clergyman's reference for a faith school TBH (no plan to attend, no real faith, not clear what Catholicism is), so if that is the purpose of the Christening, it's a bit of a waste of time, I'm afraid.

solitude - I don't even know what Confirmation and Communion is in order to even answer your question. I have no idea about the differences between Catholicism and CofE or the differences in their beliefs and practices. The reality though is that my DH probably hasn't got much of a clue either. If I asked him where the nearest Church is he probably wouldn't know. He's being very, very naive about it in my eyes. DH did say he would rather a Christening than a Baptism (I don't know the difference between these either) but isn't it a baptism that is required for a Catholic school?

He also said to me earlier with regards to reasons of having it done, "It's something my Grandma would have really wanted." He was very close to his Grandma and she passed away last October - she was the first person he told about me being pregnant and he's always been sad that she never got to meet DS. When DS was born he went to his Grandma's grave and left a photo there of DS. His Grandms was a strong Christian and she probably would have been disappointed if we didn't do it and she had been alive. How can I say no to DH when he uses that argument? I feel like I can't.

I think he needs to do a little research - look in to what the school will expect, what it involves, maybe talk to other parents who have had their children christened in the local church. He's going to need to go to the church to book the christening so he'd want to get his arse in gear, there can be months worth of a wait for a regular church-goers so he might be on the bottom of the list. Also a basic Wiki search will give him all the basic info he'll need to know regarding the aspects of the religion. Some priests will want a good sit down chat with you both to find out your beliefs. There is also the fact that you will have your child take their confirmation and communion if they attend a Catholic school, these involve classes and lessons and regular church going as part of the process.

It's all well and good that he's doing it for his Grandma, but he needs to find out what it is. Why is he going in to it blindly? And can you fake it through all of this? I couldn't (my eyes would fall out of my head from all the eye rolling I'd do )

OP does your DH evn have a Catholic background himself? It doesn't sound like it if he's saying stuff like he'd rather have a christening than a baptism

solitude - there's no way I could fake it if we were interrogated by a priest about our beliefs, I wouldn't have a clue what to say, he'd see right through me!!

westie - no, DH doesn't have a religious background at all. He was a Christened at birth (probably due to his grandma putting pressure on his parents) but he has never been to Church in his life. Apart from the fact he teaches in a Catholic school he has nothing to do with religion.

Why not have a dedication? Kind of a meet in the middle idea. I wouldn't baptise my baby purely as I think that is their decision to make when older, when it means something to them. I was dedicated but have never been baptised as I don't believe.

My son was dedicated at 18 months and he does go to church with my mum now at 7. He wants to be baptised but I feel he's too young yet.

Well I've just spoken to DH and it is definitely CofE that he wants DS Christened into, not Catholic.

We looked at the schools website that he has in mind (which is actually a secondary school and not the one he works at) and we focused on the admission criteria. There are 10 criteria as to who gets priority and CofE children, as opposed to Catholic are number 9 on the list!! I asked DH if he was still prepared to get DS Christened just for him to be 9th out 10 on the priority list, and he said yes.

We then looked into CofE Christenings and it said anyone can be Christened, even if the parents aren't. There is in mention of church attendance being required before or after the Ceremony and no mention of having to attend any type of classes.

I will speak to my non-religious friend who got her DD Christened into the CofE church and find out how easy she found it to do and if she cane across any hurdles.

Glad you've got it sorted out a bit Writer, it can be very confusing. I think getting a plan together and speaking to a few people is a good idea. Whatever you decide I think you should both be involved in the decision and make sure you're educated about what it involves.

Good luck and congratulations on your baby!

Writer did #9 on the admissions criteria not specify practicing CofEers or vicar references? It would be the norm.