To not invite my family to DS's Christening.

[Writerwannabe83]

Me and DH have a 3 week old baby and the subject of getting him Christened was raised a lot during the pregnancy. My DH is eager to get it done whereas I'm not. Neither me or DH are remotely religious and he only wants it done to open up schooling options. Although he did once say his parents would be disappointed if we didn't Christen DS.

After numerous discussions I have said that seeing as DH is so adamant then he can get DS Christened. I actually googled whether both parents need to be there because the whole farce of it does not appeal to me at all. Unfortunately I would have to be present.

All of my family are non-religious. When I told my mom we were getting DS Christened she pulled a face and said, "You don't expect me to be there do you?" I absolutely don't and told her this. I said I wouldn't be going if I had a choice.

To be honest none of my family would be interested - I'd be embarrassed at making them sit through it - so I've told my DH I probably won't even invite them.

DH was not too impressed.

But seriously, I'm not religious and don't believe in the Ceremony and nor do my family so what's the issue if they're not there?

As far as I'm concerned it can just be me through force, DH, his parents and the people he wants as Godparents. I've said there's no way we're making a big song and dance about it. Definitely no gifts or after party

I'm cringing at just the thought of it all....

Local to us the Catholic schools are more keen on baptism, not so fussed about attendance, and the CofE schools are the reverse. So this isn't about opening up attendance, it's that your DH already has an eye on the school and wants DS, at all 3 weeks old, to be going there

Remember you don't have to be a baby to be baptised, you could baptise your son when he is older if it turns out to be needed - would that appease DH? Also, churches are quite used to having a swell of 3-4 year olds attending, and 9-10 year olds, that rapidly disappear once the place is secured and the child is 5/11 respectively. It's a ridiculous system that the church - well, my own church, anyway - tolerates because they are kind of stuck with it. We've had a couple of baptisms recently where only one parent has come up, which I think is really sad - for both parents, that there is this dissonance so early in the child's life and in their marriage.

littlemiss - my DH is adamant about the Christening/Baptism happening when DS is a young - and admitted it was because DS wouldn't be aware of it and embarrassed by it.

DH's brother was Christened when he was 8 because his parents realised he wouldn't be allowed entrance into a particular school unless he'd been Christened. My DH said that at 8 years old his brother had been mortified about having to go through the Ceremony - DH said he doesn't want DS to be subjected to that.

The whole thing is a joke in my eyes. I actually don't know if I even could go through with it - the thought of standing there and promising to raise my child in line with Jesus (or whatever it is) will either make me laugh or be extremely embarrassed.

I went to the Christening of my best friend's child 4 years ago and I hated it - I felt silly making congregation promises that in my eyes were just ridiculous. She has recently had another baby and I'm already trying to think of ways to get out of attending his Christening.....

For the CofE church school, the form has to be signed by the Vicar of our church. Form had to go to the church office a few weeks in advance of the formal council application deadline. Applications without a signed form will be judged just off distance (so as only once in the last 10 years have they got as far down the application criteria to look at the last category, distance, this means you don't get in).

If your form states you attend a different church in the area, again, that will be checked, if your church don't comfirm that, you are judged just off distance (so don't get in).

Worth checking the actual school - but also if you are athiest, perhaps worth thinking if you really want your DCs to go to a faith school? How crap are the other local schools or are they actually quite good?

DH is an athiest but I am Christian and do go to church most sundays - however we've not put the outstanding faith school (that we have had our form signed for!) as our first choice for his school because DH didn't want DS to have a faith based education - although he agreed to put it as option 3 when he realised that the only other option 3 was a rather crap school that's 2 miles away. We put 2 good 'normal' schools first then the faith one because I don't feel I have a right to insist on a faith based education as DH is athiest, the compromise is he'll accept it if the alternative is a very poor school that's 2 miles away. (if we end up with option 3)

If you have good alternatives, your DH should respect your views enough that you won't want to put the faith school down.

I would use this to have a broader conversation about education now. Are you prepared to use a faith school? It's not just like other primary schools with a bit of extra money/resources from the church, most faith schools are very strongly religious in character, and most of the other children will attend church weekly.

If you aren't, what are the other local options like? If you are going to move to be close to a good non-faith school, what sort of time frame are you going to do that in? (you need to be in a new house before you apply, you apply in England by end of January before your DS would start school in the September). Could you afford private? (It's about £12k a year around here, which about the same price as a full time nursery place). As he's a teacher, would he consider working in a private school so he got a discounted/free place for your DS if the other state options aren't very good? (again, for most, to get the discount, the teacher has to have been working there 3 years before the child starts, so you need to make that decision soon).

OP - you can just attend your friend's DCs Christening and not say the promises. Think of it this way, if she was getting married, would you not go if it wasn't a civil wedding?

The local faith secondaries aren;t any better than the local non faith in our area. Its definitely more perception that reality.

I just love the reason that "it gives them a moral compass" or similar.

YEah because we atheists have feral children who don;t know right from wrong

If it's a Catholic primary school which is popular enough for the faith criteria to matter at all, baptism won't even register on their radar when it comes to admissions.

Over-subscribed Catholic schools are very, very hot on church attendance. The area I used to live in had two extremely popular Catholic primary schools. My friend was Catholic, lived very close to the school, and started attending the church with her eldest DS before he was 1. She was told that it was extremely unlikely he'd get a place, even if they attended every week from then on, because there were so many children who'd been attending the church from birth. The church even kept a register of attendance.

They moved before their DS1 was school-age anyway, but I know other people who failed to get into that school.

If your DH wants to use the church as a route into an over-subscribed school, he'll have to commit to regular attendance and probably extra attendance for special holidays. Otherwise, he's wasting his time. If it's that important to him, I'd have thought he would do his homework. There's no point him just looking at the admissions criteria - he needs to look at the recent admissions figures too.

Fair enough writer I just wanted to put that out there. I'm a Christian, but I completely agree with you FWIW, I can see no justification for a commitment that you either don't believe in or are basically lying about for a school that may not suit your DS anyway. I hope you get it sorted and especially hope that it's not a symbol of a deeper underlying problem.
Re your friend's Christening - Mary has a good point, or could you just go to the 'party' bit?!

I'm a Roman Catholic and my kids are too. My hubby isn't but we got them done because it was important to my and my hubby didn't mind as we don't like this whole idea of 'limbo' if anything ever happened to them (it's personal belief) but to be baptised Here you have to go to classes and mass for 6 weeks before hand as in some of these masses part of the baptism process is done such as the anointing so you may want to look in to this in your area? we also had to answer questions as well about the Roman Catholic faith and why we chose the name we did for their baptism and the god parent also have to attend for the 6 weeks as well but do not feel reassured into getting something done you don't want op it's your baby too! and also I think you right not to force your family either my dp family attended my sons but not my girls as they are totally against it didn't bother me though everyone who wanted to be there was there. We did invite everyone though so no arguments were caused.

Have you actually checked the league tables in your area? I know there seems to be a general feeling that faith schools are "better" and in some instances, i'm sure that's true, but I checked the league tables in my own area recently out of curiosity and was surprised at the results. I now know that we have a few different options for out hypothetical children. I think it's really unfair of him to make these sweeping generalisations about some types of schools being better than others without presenting the hard evidence to you. Especially given that you're so against it. It's like his half-arsed "let's do it just in case even though I'm not actually that committed myself..." argument is more valid than you being completely against it. I just don't get that. Do a bit more research. Have a look at alternative schools. Make a list of pros and cons. Get DH to do the same. Meet the priest and find out where you stand with your specific church - because the 'rules' can vary. Gather all the information you can before putting your foot down making a decision.

It doesn't stop with the christening OP if we are talking Catholicism.

(no offence meant to anyone's beliefs here, I speak purely from my own experience).

A Catholic primary is not like a C of E where they have a few hymns & a prayer in Parents Assembly. It is much more designed around the faith.

The Catholic school which is the nearest school to me has children in both that school & also at DS1's C of E school. I'm friends on FB with a lot of parents & basically with a Catholic primary, everything the children do has its centre in their God. Every classroom has a Holy Table with Catholic iconography & a statue of the Virgin Mary, the children are expected to attend Catholic Retreat weekends outside school, the children attend Mass regularly & I see them walking from the main school into their church holding their hands in prayer & chanting. They are expected to attend church every single Sunday. It is full on & most of the pupils will be a practising Catholic.

They will be taught fundamentals of the Catholic principles and absorb its ideas of homosexuality & other issues that you may not agree with. You may want to look into details of Catholic confessions and see what age that should begin, as my Irish roomate at Uni told me that there will always be something to confess at confession, you can't have a confession free week as it were & that she felt a lot of guilt as a child that she was not a good child & that she was constantly a sinner. The school will assume you want your child prepared for Confirmation and any other rights of passage there are during these years.

Look into the fundamentals of Catholicism & decide whether you are comfortable with your child being taught these things as truth. Only you can decide whether you are happy with it. Look round the school & look into their missions and school rules and the vision of the school. Do this with your DH as you can't really get Catholic Lite.

writer ate you prepared to publicly promise to forsake satan and all his works? I struggled to keep a straight face but dh is a practising catholic and it was important to him.

I dint want ds to go to a catholic school unless the alternatives are dire though. Church weekly its quite enough influence.

I agree with TheBuskersDog. It seems the height of cynicism to feign belief in order to improve your child's educational chances. It doesn't matter whether you are doing it wholeheartedly or with some hesitation. The result is the same. You'd still be lying about your beliefs and your commitment to a particular religion.

BTW, I'm not sure what you mean by "Is the ceremony different for the Christian faith and the Catholic faith?" When you say Christian, do you mean C of E? Catholicism is certainly Christian!

I'm in such a difficult position because it's something DH is set on and marriage is about compromise.

By it going ahead it might improves DS's future education, and if I say no to it going ahead it may harm DS's education - in my DH's eyes anyway.

A few posts have shown that when the mother and father disagree over Christenings, favour seems to sway towards the parent who does want it to go ahead. Afterall, what is the harm?

However, i really don't think my DH understands what Christenings and Baptisms are about and what a huge commitment they are. Our child won't be raised a Catholic and I doubt my DH would want our child to have Catholic beliefs forced upon him in a school environment....but he doesn't seem to have thought about that.

Congratulations Writer!

Thing is with a christening, you're making promises on behalf of your child about turning to Christ, renouncing the devil etc. Do you honestly feel you can stand in front of a church full of people and make those promises, knowing that you don't believe them and don't have the slightest chance of keeping them?

I think the religious schooling thing is a red herring. Many church schools don't have a requirement, or even a preference, for children to be baptised, and if it really becomes an issue, you could always have your son christened when he's older. People can and do get christened at any age.

Unless things have changed recently you don't have to be present in a CoE christening. My SIL didn't go to her DDs christening and didn't invited her side of family to the party afterwards. The only thing I thought strange was that she agreed to and organised the party.

My understanding with popular faith schools is that church attendance is the thing, not christenings.
The only thing is can be useful for is working in a strict muslim country - although this may have changed. someone I know had to provide his christening and confirmation to work in Saudi Arabia several yrs back.

OP - can yoy have a naming ceremony instead of a Christening if neither you nor your dh are religious?

I know it won't 'solve' the school thing but certainly at the Church (C of E) schools I went to, regular attendance at Church prior to starting at the school was essential.

At the Catholic secondary where we live they have very strict criteria for admission because they are ridiculously oversubscribed every year. After the children in care and SEN clauses the admissions goes roughly like this.

Baptised before 6 months old and attend church regularly (evidence required from parish priest).

Baptised after 6 months of age and attend church regularly (evidence required from parish priest).

Siblings of children within the school already.

Baptised, go to catholic primary but not regular church attendance.

Not baptised but go to catholic primary.

Children of staff.

Other Christian children, baptised and church attenders (proofs needed).

Children with exceptional talent that matches the school's specialism.

Distance.

This school has a maybe 150 child intake per year. They rarely ever get past four or five in the list.

buskersdog - I absolutely don't want to go through with it, as I said repeatedly in my OP. I also said I have looked into me not even going to the Ceremony because I don't believe in religion. I completely agree with everything you say and I'd hoped you would have realised that from my OP therefore I don't understand your attacking tone towards me.

Sorry I don't mean to attack you, but you are actually considering taking part in and letting your child be used in this farce, which may have consequences i.e beliefs forced upon him that you don't agree with, that's the point I am making. Some posters were discussing admissions criteria, whereas IMHO the issue is introducing a baby into a religion which neither of his parents are followers. I do understand when one parent follows a religion the other may compromise despite not believing, but that isn't the case with you, your husband doesn't believe either.

Just say no to your husband and his parents, lots of people have parents who expect all children to be christened just because that's what's always happened without any thought to what it actually means, it doesn't mean we have to do it to keep them happy.

You're right buskers about beliefs being forced on him that I don't agree with. It's made me feel quite uncomfortable reading the posts where Catholic Schools and their typical daily routines have been discussed.

DH has already asked two of his friends to be Godparents....

At least if we have to meet with the guy who performs the ceremony I have a chance to sabotage things Surely though he'd find it odd that me and DH want to christen DS when he's never, ever seen us at Church?

Why not have a naming ceremony if your dh is set on making a grand occasion out of it?

Don't even get me started on how stupid and pretentious I think naming ceremonies are

Thankfully DH doesn't want to make a big deal out of it, he's not bothered about having lots of guests and he was happy with the notion of not having gifts and doesn't want a party afterwards. All he wants is the Christening/Baptism to take place even if it very low key.

I think it's weird that non of your family would attend because they aren't religious. Lots of mon religious people attend christenings simply for the baby and its parents. It's a good excuse to get together.

We get together anyway - it's isn't like anyone would be coming, friends or family, that we don't see regularly anyway. I understand non-religious people attending for the sake of the parents, I.e in respect of their beliefs and wishes, but seeing as I'm not bothered about the whole thing I certainly don't expect my family to be.

Well, it's often not just you seeing the individuals, but getting everyone together as a group that doesn't happen very often, fair enough if your family regularly have 'events' that collect everyone together, a lot of families don't.

Plus a lot of atheists want a party to celebrate the arrival of a baby into a family, hence the naming ceremony to replace the christening.

Quite a few friends who aren't religious threw huge 1st birthday parties for their babies, clearly just an excuse for a family party.

I am Christian and my dcs baptism was important to me from a faith perspective, but the event within the two extended families was also important and if we hadn't gone the christening route I might have done a naming ceremony for that reason. (And there's a lot to be said for eating cake and drinking champagne on a sunny afternoon with all the people you care about)

DH doesn't have a much extended relatives and those he does have, well it certainly isn't happy families. He said he'd only invite his parents which is why I think he's happy to just have a low key event.

Our baby is already very welcome into our family and everyone knows his name which not surprisingly he had from birth - it's not something we kept secret in preparation to announce at a ceremony . I feel the same way about 'Naming Ceremonies' as the way most people on MN feel about baby showers: pointless, grabby, attention seeking and pretentious

I'd rather attend his Christening than host a 'Naming Ceremony'