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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

there is way too much pressure to EBF?

361 replies

ArtFine · 05/04/2014 14:53

Just that really.

I've had a difficult journey with BF, and when I look back I know it would have been better and much more healthier for my baby (forget me) if I hadn't breastfed. She has CMPA and other allergies (and had awful silent reflux etc), and this would have been picked up very early on had she been bottle fed, and saved her a lot of pain and tears. Hmm

Why is there so much pressure to EBF? Why is it always assumed that breast milk is THE best?

What's the harm for example in giving one bottle of formula per day so that babies get used to the bottle?

OP posts:
herethereandeverywhere · 06/04/2014 08:55

I wouldn't say that there is too much pressure. I would say that 1) the campaign to breastfeed generates unreasonable expectations of how easy it will be and skirts over any problems you may have and 2) the healthcare system in the UK is woefully inadequate when it comes to dealing with problems with bf. Examples from me:

  1. I bought the 'baby only needs ebf from birth. Colostrum is enough. Giving formula will inhibit bf. 3 days after she was born and 2 after being discharged with 'bf being established' on my notes she was readmitted to hospital through A&E. She was dehydrated and too sleepy to feed. She ended up being tube fed formula up her nose.
  2. Once the formula had got her out of the 'she might die' zone I continued with bf. This involved excruciating pain on my part as the only position the bf counsellors in hospital could trat me to feed my ultra fussy/ultra hungry baby in was sitting up. Sitting up on my broken down episiotomy wound. This was like being tortured for 2 months. trying to feed lying down meant we never got a successful latch.
  3. I continued to persevere with bf. I got recurring blocked ducts. My GP had no idea what to do about them. I had to phone volunteer helplines and wait for them to call me back. The answer to unblocking was hours in the bath and untold pain squeezing out the blockage.
  4. Sometimes (3) above was not successful. I got mastitis, several times. I knew when it was coming on and my GP had no clue what to do. I had horrendous symptoms over the weekend and couldn't face getting to a walk in centre as I felt too ill. No home visit available so I paid for a private GP who told me I shouldn't feed from the infected boob (the opposite of what's helpful!)

I have never felt so alive as the day I finally did the last bf and was free of all that sh*t. The first 4-6 months with my baby were not lovely. They weren't even nice. I look back on the time and see stress and pain. Part of this was recovering from a traumatic delivery. I persevered due to the breast is best campaign I got from all sides when frankly formula would have been so much easier. I looked upon DD as someone who wrecked my body and inflicted continuous pain on me.

Also a word of caution on the bf reducing PND. That might be the overall statistic but I'm unsure of the causal link, isn't it 'bfeeding mums are less likely to have PND'. I don't think you can jump from that to concluding that a mum with PND would be better off bf, especially if that's causing the anguish.

herethereandeverywhere · 06/04/2014 08:59

I wouldn't say that there is too much pressure. I would say that A) the campaign to breastfeed generates unreasonable expectations of how easy it will be and skirts over any problems you may have and B) the healthcare system in the UK is woefully inadequate when it comes to dealing with problems with bf. Examples from me:

  1. I bought the 'baby only needs ebf from birth. Colostrum is enough. Giving formula will inhibit bf etc etc. 3 days after she was born and 2 after being discharged with 'bf being established' on my notes she was readmitted to hospital through A&E. She was dehydrated and too sleepy to feed. She ended up being tube fed formula up her nose.
  2. Once the formula had got her out of the 'she might die' zone I continued with bf. This involved excruciating pain on my part as the only position the bf counsellors in hospital could teach me to feed my ultra fussy/ultra hungry baby in was sitting up. Sitting up on my broken down episiotomy wound. This was like being tortured for 2 months. Trying to feed lying down meant we never got a successful latch.
  3. I continued to persevere with bf. I got recurring blocked ducts. My GP had no idea what to do about them. I had to phone volunteer helplines and wait for them to call me back. The answer to unblocking was hours in the bath and untold pain squeezing out the blockage.
  4. Sometimes (3) above was not successful. I got mastitis, several times. I knew when it was coming on and my GP had no clue what to do. I had horrendous symptoms over the weekend and couldn't face getting to a walk in centre as I felt too ill. No home visit available so I paid for a private GP who told me I shouldn't feed from the infected boob (the opposite of what's helpful!)

I have never felt so alive as the day I finally did the last bf and was free of all that sh*t. The first 4-6 months with my baby were not lovely. They weren't even nice. I look back on the time and see stress and pain. Part of this was recovering from a traumatic delivery. I persevered due to the breast is best campaign I got from all sides when frankly formula would have been so much easier. I looked upon DD as someone who wrecked my body and inflicted continuous pain on me.

Also a word of caution on the bf reducing PND. That might be the overall statistic but I'm unsure of the causal link, isn't it 'bfeeding mums are less likely to have PND'. I don't think you can jump from that to concluding that a mum with PND would be better off bf, especially if that's causing the anguish.

herethereandeverywhere · 06/04/2014 09:02

Gah, sorry about that, laptop being temperamental. Blush

Minifingers · 06/04/2014 10:00

Yes it can give the mother a break.

It can and often does ruin breastfeeding and make existing problems worse. Which is why I don't go around telling people with confidence that 'it's absolutely fine to give a bottle.

Minifingers · 06/04/2014 10:03

And I agree that for some mums breastfeeding embodies everything they find emotionally difficult about being a mum - the feeling of overwhelming responsibility in particular.

TheFabulousIdiot · 06/04/2014 10:08

'however I did not know I could just get DH to bring it in'

Really!

Yet there I was being offered a choice of two formulas within hours of my son's birth by the hospital staff. Just goes to show how differently hospitals do things.

Befuddled with the birth and a baby in NICU I was still able to tell the doctor I wanted someone to come now and help me hand express.

TheFabulousIdiot · 06/04/2014 10:11

Has anyone ever adequately explained what the breast feeding mafia is? Or a breast feeding nazi? FFS. Stupid words to use.

Sunnysummer · 06/04/2014 10:27

We talk a lot about pressure to bf on here, but the reality is that only 55% of UK babies are receiving any breast milk at 6 weeks (per the 2012 Infant Feeding Survey, suggesting that for lots of the UK the pressure is actually in the opposite direction.

I think that sometimes all the guidance we get is meant to counteract that - but it means that people who already intended to feed can get a double whammy of messages, which can feel overwhelming.

On the other hand, I know that visiting some relatives in a fairly deprived area I felt like a freak for feeding my then-6 month old, one lovely cousin even told DH he should insist on his rights as a man to 'get his boobs back'!

cloggal · 06/04/2014 10:40

fabulous different hospitals are very different in their approach and interpretation of guidelines, and mums too. Some mums don't feel able to bf in public when they get hassle for doing so. Some don't feel able to insist on formula. Daft? Maybe, but it won't be helped by just saying you were stronger than that, even if that's a positive story. When my son was in NICU I wouldn't have been able to insist on my own name, you have my respect for having your head on.

I think in general this thread has been pretty good. (A feeding thread on AIBU that has not gone totally crackers! Hooray!)
I think BF should be promoted but I think there are times when it is not the 'best option' as in armi's case, or humpty's and there should obviously be support for the mum who wants to try and still give her baby breast milk but with formula too, or safely switch to ff. I got support to do this and also a lot of crap from different HCPs. That's a fair amount of breast milk my son wouldn't have had if I'd listened to the 'ebf is the only way' MWs. There should be support for all mums with feeding regardless of their situation to try and promote positive discussions about feeding choices/options. We have people being dissuaded from feeding their child with breasts and bottles alike, whether from tuts at the local cafe, cats-bum-face HVs, or bad advice from MWs, when at the end we only hope for a thriving child. Why on earth should anyone judge, feel guilt or be unsupported when they are feeding their child?

cloggal · 06/04/2014 10:41

Sunny Shock

cloggal · 06/04/2014 10:45

mini I completely agree with your last post - when all a baby does is feed and sleep, not being able to feed becomes for some synonymous with not being able to be the mother this tiny baby needs. Support, support, support is needed, even if this does not end in ebf.

stuckindamiddle · 06/04/2014 11:14

herethere - I hear you! I've been watching this thread and hesitated to comment until now. I too had a nightmare with breastfeeding and my son dropped off the bottom of the growth charts completely at one point after languishing there for a couple of months. He was born an average weight but when he was next weighed at home at 6 days old (hospital forgot to weigh him at 72 hrs old!! Angry ) he had lost almost 11% of his birth weight. I'd had an awful labour lasting over three days, instrumental delivery and a post partum haemorrhage and blood transfusion. Breastfeeding support initially in hospital seemed fine and I was helped to express colostrum. But the outcome a few days later with baby's large weight loss made me think I should have got more support.

I so so wanted to be one of the mothers for whom breastfeeding worked out. We'd needed IVF to conceive and I'd then needed an instrumental delivery, so I think both those things made me want breastfeeding to work out even more as it's natural. I wanted to be one of those who could breastfeed anywhere, including lying down. I can see how that would be very easy and convenient. But in my case I could only feed sat bolt upright in cross cradle hold with specific pillows to support baby. I was in incredible pain feeding but no one could work out why. Latch was apparently fine and thrush was ruled out etc. I tried biological / laid back nursing positions, as advised by breastfeeding counsellors but me and baby just couldn't get on with those. Lying down he couldn't latch propertly until about 8 months old. I developed RSI from the hours spent feeding in that position so then had physio appts to add to all the frequent visits to breastfeeding clinics for ongoing help. All the counsellors insisted I didn't need to be topping up with formula despite baby being tiny (below bottom centile!) and constantly hungry. I was prescribed by HV to wake my sleeping baby to feed at night to maintain / boost my supply so for months I set my alarm for 4am and sat bolt upright in bed feeding for an hour.

There was also immense pressure in my case from my DP. He wanted our baby to be BF as he was breastfed and he'd attended all the ante natal classes with me and had heard over and over how breast was absolutely best for both mum and baby. The issue caused a great deal of conflict between us which was very stressful and not what you want in your baby's early weeks and months.Sad

In the end we topped up with formula due to weight gain from 6 weeks or so. The formula to breast ratio slowly changed though I did breast feed my baby twice a day until just before their first birthday.

My breasts only ever felt full
or leaked on a few occasions. I had definite supply issues, whether inate or caused by repeated poor latch.

I also feel, knowing so much more about it all now, that my baby had undiagnosed tongue tie.

Pumping after feeds, drinking fennel tea, taking all sorts of natural milk boosters and a prescription one (domperidone) - I did it all. Exclusive breastfeeding just didn't happen for me long term. Breastfeeding only became enjoyable months down the line once baby was down to a couple of feeds a day as on solids and feeding lying down worked.

Breastfeeding is mis-sold in my view. It's made out to be easy, convenient, Yes, it's natural and is 'best' but I also do wonder by
exactly how much on each of the various aspects. I found it utterly exhausting, painful, relentless and I felt a complete failure because I couldn't make it work, unlike most other mums I knew. Only a couple FF and that was because they also found breastfeeding difficult but gave up a few days in as no-one (themselves or anyone else) was pressuring them to keep breastfeeding.

No formula is offered at our local hospital as it's a certified UNICEF baby friendly one.

Sorry for long, rambling and cathartic post!

herethereandeverywhere · 06/04/2014 11:39

stuck Flowers

I just think of the hours and hours and hours I dedicated to bf and all the pain I suffered through it and think, wouldn't it have been better for me to spend the time enjoying time with my baby?

IsChippyMintonExDirectory · 06/04/2014 11:49

humpty my birth was very similar to yours - I also lost 3 pints of blood and this did affect my supply. However no one told me that it was very likely to affect my supply until DD was weighed on day 5 and had lost 13% of her body weight (the MW actually said "you probably don't have much milk because you lost so much blood" - thanks for telling me now). I never want to feel as low as I did then. My MW told me to put her on formula but after research online I pumped endlessly for the next 2 days to increase my supply, and fed her any expressed milk I got out. She put on 7oz in 2 days and we have had a v successful journey ever since. I admit at one point the formula was so so tempting as I did have that "I'm starving my baby" mentality. But my sheer bloody mindedness made me carry on. So to say "bully for you" because it "went well" for me is v offensive. I am v proud that I carried on, and if that apparently makes other mothers feel crap because they didn't then that's their issue, not mine. If I had turned to formula I would not have felt guilty, and cried "you're making me feel bad" to successful BFers because it would have been the best option for me at the time.

This thread is about the "pressure" to breast feed, and it's clear everyone had different experiences, but I for one felt the pressure to FF and felt I did not get enough support to BF successfully. But that's anecdotal evidence and not representative of how HCPs really are.

Despite my initial difficulties I really do think BFing should be pushed onto new mums. It's the best food newborns can have, not BFing costs the NHS a lot of money so it's in their interest, and something needs to be done to counteract the millions of pounds that formula companies pour into marketing (I know its illegal to advertise infant formula but the presence of follow on milk advertising kind of cancels this out, after all we all know that infant milk exists and is available in shops to buy).

If, like people seem to be suggesting here, women weren't encouraged to BF simply because it made those who are unsuccessful at it feel guilty, it would be a very very sorry state of affairs. Like I said in a PP, no one objects to the encouragement of feeding kids healthy food, so why the controversy when BFing is pushed on us?

IsChippyMintonExDirectory · 06/04/2014 11:50

PS in these threads is always a lingering double standard that BF can be slagged off/blamed for PND/blamed for problems with the baby - but if anyone slags of formula they're accused of being judgemental and all he'll breaks loose.

herethereandeverywhere · 06/04/2014 12:01

Well if all my bf problems would have been solved with 2 days expressing I'm sure I'd feel as positive as you IsChippy. It's great you worked hard to resolve a problem but that implies others didn't try hard enough.

My personal view is that I tried too hard. My 'successful' bf was at the expense of my mental wellbeing and my ability to enjoy time with my baby.

It was bf 1, happy mum nil for me.

cloggal · 06/04/2014 12:03

I think we should find ways of supporting mums feeding their babies, rather than making it a 'rivalry' - there's no reason for anyone to slag off either bf or ff. As I've said elsewhere some of us did both!

If we all channelled this obvious emotive energy into campaigning for support for mothers we would be much better off.

SaggyAndLucy · 06/04/2014 12:06

HAHAHA !
I've been pumping endlessly for nearly 5 weeks at least 8 hours a day AND taking Domperidone. I still have to cut at least 1 feed a day with formula!
Everyone is different!

formerbabe · 06/04/2014 12:08

There's only pressure if you let it get to you. Many new mums are unsure of themselves and seem to care what others think. I've seen ordinarily strong, confident women turn into quivering nervous wrecks.

TheScience · 06/04/2014 12:16

please don't try to argue that cutting a baby's mouth, then having to massage the cut daily after every feed to make the cut bleed/not heal is 'best'. If that's the only way you can force your baby to bf, then perhaps you ought to accept it's not meant to be.

Humpty - what? Who does this? Both my children had tongue ties cut, as did a friend and a relative's (bottlefed) babies. I have never heard of trying to make babies' mouths bleed or not heal Confused Both my DC cried for maybe 30 seconds, there was a small amount of bleeding (almost none for DS1) and then they fed and were fine. I do know of a 3 year old who had to have a tongue tie cut under GA for speech issues - that was much more stressful.

Writerwannabe83 · 06/04/2014 12:17

saggy - it fascinates me as to how some women seem to have no problem producing milk whereas others struggle.....there must be some physiological reason for it. That sounds exhausting doing all that pumping, do you use an electric one or manual one?

I'm 'lucky' in that I have a large supply of milk (boobs are constantly dripping) and I have to express just to get rid of milk because my breasts become easily engorged. I tried an electric pump but I just couldn't get on with it and though pumping wasn't something I'd be able to do but my sister recommended I get a manual one and it made the world of difference. I get about 4oz of milk per breast in about 15-20 minutes.

I was talking to one of my friends yesterday who had breast fed her son a few years ago and although she could feed successfully she was never able to express regardless of what pump she used - she said no matter how long she pumped for only a few drops at a time would come out. She decided it was too much hassle and I don't blame her Smile

If breast feeding is supposed to be the only and natural way then surely some women wouldn't have these problems with supply? It just shows that breast feeding isn't always the easy and convenient option for some women. I can imagine in such scenarios it would be awful for the woman if she felt under pressure to BF.

HumptyDumptyBumpty · 06/04/2014 12:18

chippy, herethere has said precisely what I would say. It worked FOR YOU. That's nice, it didn't work for me. I couldn't express by hands by manual pump, by electric pump, by dangling off the ceiling hoping it would fall out. It DIDNT WORK. Okay?
So that's one for whom it worked, one for whom it didn't. Fifty-fifty. Not 'a few freakish women who can't bf'. Please stop patronising me.

mini presume you were on the research team that proved that 'breast is best' then? How was the research carried out? What was the control group? Babies who lived on thin air? What was the research agenda, and who funded the research?

here I hear you! I cannot wait to give up the bfing I still do (every feed, but with ff top up). I don't like it, it's still uncomfortable, I hate knowing I'm not producing enough, it's not easy to do in public (I live in London, there are loads of 'breast feeding friendly cafes', but some of them don't have room for a pram - so not that 'friendly', and two others have full length plate glass windows onto busy roads. Not exactly discreet) without flashing people, and I don't like the exposure. I'm holding out until DD hits 4 months, but will stop then for my own sanity and to actually enjoy her. As you say, I find bfing interferes with my enjoyment of her.

TheScience · 06/04/2014 12:22

If breastfeeding makes you miserable or stops you enjoying your baby, why on earth do you do it. Yes, there are some health benefits but really pretty small ones.

IsChippyMintonExDirectory · 06/04/2014 12:29

humpty when did I say it should have worked for you or use the word "freakish"? My point was that I'm not under the illusion that it's easy for everyone, it wasn't the least bit easy for me, but it doesn't change the fact that it's important to encourage women to BF. If you're reading that as "it worked for me it therefore should have worked for you" I believe that's you taking it the wrong way completely and letting your anger about it all manifest.

One thing I will say, bF does need to be encouraged but "sold" differently. I know its different in different areas, but where I am I went to a BF antenatal class and was told by the v enthusiastic MWs the following -

  • BF doesn't, and shouldn't hurt (for first month felt like someone was stabbing me in the boob)
  • BFing is easy
  • it's practically impossible not to have enough milk
  • you will be supported 24/7 no matter what (not true)
  • you'll never be offered formula (DD was barely 24 hours old and offered formula)

I think their stance is to not put people off BFing, but there is a distinct lack of honesty about it, and I for one would have been better prepared of they'd said "it'll hurt like hell, but only for a little while, you might not make enough milk, but we'll help you combat that, and we don't all work off the same page so don't be surprised if a nurse offers you formula, it's up to you whether to accept it or not".