there is way too much pressure to EBF?

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Just that really.

I've had a difficult journey with BF, and when I look back I know it would have been better and much more healthier for my baby (forget me) if I hadn't breastfed. She has CMPA and other allergies (and had awful silent reflux etc), and this would have been picked up very early on had she been bottle fed, and saved her a lot of pain and tears.

Why is there so much pressure to EBF? Why is it always assumed that breast milk is THE best?

What's the harm for example in giving one bottle of formula per day so that babies get used to the bottle?

Sorry, can't open the link.

The UAE recently legislated that all mothers must BF for at least two years. Only those with a genuine medical reason would get a wet nurse.

I know BF enthusiasts here in the UK who would support such a law being introduced here.

Ah yes, I had heard about that. The UAE has some pretty interesting legislation about women in general I think.
Now that would constitute pressure to bf. whether it slegitimate or not is a different question.
I think the uk clearly applies pretty close to zero pressure on the subject.

I think women are made to feel bad. As a neutral observer to these threads, I see a fair bit of it. I can also guess at least one or two names of posters who are always on these threads banging their fucking drums. So, I can see why some FF mums feel put upon.

I went into bfing thinking it was just a case of nose to nipple and a wide gape. That's the info I got at my ante-natal bf class. Most of that class was spent talking about the benefits of bf. I knew the benefits. I needed to know more about bf itself. I watched the NHS Scotland DVD. Again, nose to nipple and gape. If sore, detach and reposition.

Reality was another planet. I felt like I was lied to.

It was agony. All the time. The cracks, the bleeding, the mess of my nipples was terrifying. Watching blood drip on my baby from one breast as I fed from the other was distressing. The ambulance to hospital was terrifying. I knew I had to be seriously ill to be getting sent to Dundee. The 24 hours of investigations to find out why I was so ill were terrifying. Watching MWs feed my baby formula was upsetting. Pulling solid green strings of milk from my nipples was scary and disgusting. The coming round after resus finding my room filled with people was terrifying. Watching my husband sob afterwards was heart breaking. All caused by my lack of knowledge about bf. Nothing that happened to me was covered by my bf class.

Throughout this, I still bf because I knew it was the 'right' thing to do. I didn't stop until I got home from hospital and realised I couldn't continue without having a breakdown. I failed. It felt like failure. It still does. I managed to relactate but I still feel like I failed DD. I didn't give her the best start to life. It's not what I planned for her.

Why paint such a rosy picture of bf ante-natally? It is fucking hard. It is harder here in the UK than most of the rest of the world because bf rates are so low. We don't see bf around us so we don't know what's normal. I had no idea I was so ill. No one in my family could help because mine is the first generation still alive to bf. Many HCPs give crap bf advice. I saw at least 20 different midwives as well as numerous doctors who all said the latch looks fine! It wasn't though. But, no-one could fix it for us.

DC2 is due in Aug. I'm scared to bf again. But, I've done my homework. I've read umpteen books, found a LLL meeting in the next local authority, I have the helplines in my phone. I have a pump. I have shields. I have Lansinoh. I have have wound shields.

Mostly, though, my plan is to refuse to leave the unit until the latch feels painless. They will have to physically drag me from the building if they want me to home.

Oops. Spelling.

Well said stargirl - ante natal 'teaching' about breastfeeding is totally crap!!

Congratulations on being pregnant again and I hope you have a much better BF experience this time round

Thanks.

The NHS have got the easy bit of bf sorted - telling parents about the benefits. I'm sure 90% of the childbearing age group know bf is of great benefit. They can relax on this front.

The hard bit needs investment. Support for mums. Education not just promotion. Addressing the UK's cultural barriers to bf.

NHS Tayside had a stand running all week locally to promote bf. I kinda resent the money spent on that, tbh.

Get into homes. Run a 24 hour a day, 7 days a week clinic, ask local stores to have bf friendly areas that aren't in a fucking cupboard, get into secondary schools, etc.

People intensive, hard stuff. Not bloody posters and pens.

I'm not sure you can actually teach someone to breastfeed effectively without a baby in their arms to feed. Every baby is different. Both my babies were absolute pains in the arses to feed for the first couple of weeks, but for utterly different reasons.

I'd never even held a newborn. Trying to teach me how to breastfeed from a purely theoretical point of view was a bit of a non-starter.

Too true stargirl. Staying with the example of other countries, the Netherlands has an amazing system of post natal support for all mothers that we should emulate if we're serious about improving BF rates. I'll find a link.

BF may be great but it puts a huge onus on the Mother to be there at all times. That is glossed over...

I bottle fed and found it wonderful to be able to skip out for an afternoon leaving Dh in charge, or to leave the baby overnight with grandparents whilst DH and I had a night away.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/a-new-approach-to-postnatal-care-mothers-helpers-8962986.html

I agree another - BFing felt
utterly overwhelming and all consuming for me. That wasn't mentioned in the ante natal classes which just focused on how hassle free BF is, which it unfortunately wasn't for me.

I actually think HCPs are pretty much damned if they do and damned if they don't when it comes to bf.
Especially MWs. Whatever they do/suggest will be wrong for someone. And people only focus on the negatives.
I've had nothing but help. It might not always have been the best help or advice but the people giving it were doing the best they could with what they had available. I get regular visits from bf support who are nothing but gently encouraging. They've suggested several different approaches to encourage dd to try bf, have provided several pieces of expensive equipment free of charge and have never flinched from the suggestion that I give up and FF.
This is all from an NHS trust which is basically on the hospital version of 'special measures'.

BF is not always easy and everyone has a different expectation.

I agree support is lacking and so important
My hospital experience was awful all round and from a bf POV felt like the ward was run by cow &gate tbh.
But one MW, in the middle of the night when I was derranged tired and tearful, just took my baby and popped him on. It was a bit ungainly tbh, but she helped me to have confidence in my milk. I didn't even know her name and never met her again but I will never forget her and her kindness and her skill. It actually still makes me feel emotional when I think about it
The whole "having babies" thing puts the onus on women. It is emotional and traumatic at times and we need support
But I still think ff is pushed more than bf, overall.

candy are you suggesting that you recognise some of the posters from RL?
Obviously I'd want the thread deleted if that was in relation to my identity.

TheReal No, not from RL. I mean from these threads.

Ok. (don't have to look over my shoulder now next time I go to baby clinic)
The thing is, that MW who helped me clearly felt it was important that mothers have confidence in their ability to feed. Many others would have said, (and did) that my baby needed a top up. He didn't. She was right and without her support and enthusiasm for bf I might never have been able to feed my ds, especially for so long. Another person might have considered that was pressure to ebf. But I think if you want to bf then it doesn't feel like that, it feels like support.
If you actually dont want to ebf then I guess any encouragement can be seen as pressure.
But I suppose they have to try because it's a good thing for babies and mums.
Thesore's very little criticism of formula companies for pushing their product. Ok, lots and lots babies will do fine with it, it isn't the "end of the world" most of us we probably ff.

But. There are problems with ff. and bf is better and I expect my MW and GP and HV to tell me that. As much as I expect them to encourage me to have my dcs vaccinated, or to have them sleep on their backs when they're little, or to give them vitamins or visit the dentist or not have sweets every day. It's easy to balk at any advice if it's contrary to your current practice at home, or your childhood experience.
When DH is told by the GP that he should eat less butter and Brie he can ever follow that advice or ignore it. I don't think it's fair to say there's too much pressure to eat better. Even though the poor GP mentions it with a concerned frown at every consultation.

I agree amandaclarke

If a woman wants to breast feed she sees information about the health benefits as important and educational, and she will see encouragement to feed as her being supported.

A woman who wants to FF will see the exact same information and encouragement as being pressure.

The problem doesn't lie with the information being given - it lies with the perception of the woman hearing it.

I disagree. I wanted to breastfeed and did but with lots of difficulty. I felt pressure to continue regardless, because of the 'it's best' messages. What mother, believing breast is best, wouldn't do anything they could to BF their child and feel pressure if that proved difficult or not possible?

I completely see your point kl07 - and like you said, a mother who believes breast is best will do anything they can to breast feed - but is the pressure you talk sometimes just pressure that women put on themselves as opposed to pressure from HCP's?

I know when I hit my bad place after DS's birth and had an awful time with breast feeding and had a bit of an emotional breakdown when I agreed for him to have a bottle of formula, it wasn't that I was made to feel like a failure by the midwives, but I felt like a failure because I so wanted to breast feed and felt I'd let my son down by allowing him to have formula. For about a week I was really low about breast feeding, the whole process was a nightmare and everyday I was in tears over it - I wasn't bothered or concerned about what HCP's would think of me if I couldn't persevere, I was more upset by what I thought of myself. I wasn't being pressured by external factors, but by my own expectations of what I wanted to do for my baby.

I can relate to your experience writer but our expectations of ourselves and what we need to do to do the best for our babies DO come from external sources IMO, at least they do with BF. I felt pressure because of all the 'breast is best' messages that the NHS and others direct at mothers. Even if it IS best, that is (unfortunately) pressure for those who want to BF but struggle or fail to do so.

But the NHS and health professionals have a duty to inform us if one of two choices has better health outcomes for the baby. So, SIDs advice, healthy eating advice, these things shouldn't be kept secret just in case people feel bad.

TheRealAmandaClarke I wasn't talking about you anyway. I think you've been very fair and measured on this thread.

I agree noble

When I was in bits in hospital over the breast feeding, apart from one midwife who wouldn't give me a bottle of formula, the rest of the staff, including the doctors, were pushing formula on me. If anything I felt under more pressure to give formula than I'd ever felt pressure to BF.

Being told the benefits of BF and the fact that it is best is not pressure, it's just providing the facts.

Yy writer and noble