there is way too much pressure to EBF?

[ArtFine]

Just that really.

I've had a difficult journey with BF, and when I look back I know it would have been better and much more healthier for my baby (forget me) if I hadn't breastfed. She has CMPA and other allergies (and had awful silent reflux etc), and this would have been picked up very early on had she been bottle fed, and saved her a lot of pain and tears.

Why is there so much pressure to EBF? Why is it always assumed that breast milk is THE best?

What's the harm for example in giving one bottle of formula per day so that babies get used to the bottle?

Suzyjane - I'm sorry you had a bad time with PND but your case does not mean that it is a fact for all women who struggled to breast feed. And yes BFing does reduce the chances of PND, I'll find a better link but take a look at this www.babycenter.com/0_how-breastfeeding-benefits-you-and-your-baby_8910.bc?page=3

Please explain properly how stating facts is the 'height of ignorance'. I don't understand why people get offended by the suggestion that BFing is better than FFing. It is.

75% of all statistics are made up. However only 25% of people know that... Figure that one, BFing Fanatics!

"Please explain properly how stating facts is the height of ignorance"

The height of ignorance is assuming that results of research = facts. "Research" always has an agenda.

I think everyone is wrong, sort of. The problem is it's all subjective. These debates always result in 'in my case' answers. Those just don't forward the debate. Reading here you would also assume most people had nasty births. They don't. Statistically anyway. Some of this is just perception as no one knows what it's like til you do it. Frankly it can be a shock, and what you term 'bad' a professional says is actually 'good'. As well it might be if you've watched a 100.

Ultimately op you are ill informed IMO in this area. Not bu as I don't think that should apply in this debate.

EBF puts a huge amount of pressure on the mother. Particularly when it's not going well and you have other smug mothers who are doing it successfully.

Gemma are you suggesting that by simply breastfeeding without problems, women are putting pressure on others?

Breast IS best, that's why the NHS promotes and encourages it over ff, it saves them money in the long run. Do what's right for you and your baby and stop taking other people's parenting decisions as a personal slight.

IsChippy, BFing probably is better than FF. Probably.

IF

The mother wants to, and is physically capable of doing so, and emotionally strong enough for the difficulties it can pose. And if the baby is physically capable of latching on (without surgery)*.

Not just 'oh yes breast is best'. That's so facile and unhelpful. If bfing was easy FOR YOU then bully for you. It isn't, for a lot of women; in my NCT group of 8, only 1 has bf without struggling (two TT which needed snipping, one didn't work; one where the latch was only possible with nipple shields, one under supply (me), one who hated it, two with bleeding nipples and one persistent mastitis). That's hardly the romanticised, soft focus, 'just bring the baby to the breast' picture you're force fed pre-birth, is it?

I lost three litres of blood during delivery, struggled to bf in hospital with hugely conflicting and SHIT advice, then consultant calmly said 'well, your milk supply will be non existent until your body has made up the lost blood volume'. There's a medical fact for you as opposed to research which is commissioned and therefore biased.

No dipshit 'oh just try this hold' or 'have you tried expressing fifty bazillion times a day, because frankly, two hours sleep a day is too much' midwives even thought to check if I had a milk/colostrum supply to witter on about, did they? I didn't. I had a 10lb baby screaming for 2-3 hours without pause because she needed food.

The pressure to bf was HUGE, to the point of a midwife denying me a bottle of formula at 2am, because I 'wasn't trying hard enough to bf'.
If you haven't given birth very recently then I'm sorry, but you simply have NO IDEA of the pressure on women to bf. I'm pretty sure I have PND, and it's at least 50% down to how I was made to feel over mixed feeding.

OP, YADNBU.

*please don't try to argue that cutting a baby's mouth, then having to massage the cut daily after every feed to make the cut bleed/not heal is 'best'. If that's the only way you can force your baby to bf, then perhaps you ought to accept it's not meant to be.

Some people are just so chippy about the fact that they ff that it's hard to discuss the issue.
Most pplwho do ff do so out of choice and some because they struggled with bf. better support and information can improve the bf figures and this would benefit babies.
But its like a taboo to suggest that bReastfeeding is the best way to feed most babies. It's a shame that our bf figures are so low. I don't see that changing while we're all stepping on eggshells.
I'm still pissed off that my ds had formula in his first few days. No need for it. I was vulnerable and i was bullied into it. Pressure to bf? No. I think there's still a lot of ff pushing tbh. The best thing (for him. God forbid!) would have been someone helping me express and fixing his tongue tie. Harder for me? Harder for them? Maybe. But better for my baby. That's not pressure. It's good practice. But no, much easier to tip a bit of formula into him and rush on to the next person.

Gemma are you suggesting that by simply breastfeeding without problems, women are putting pressure on others?

Not at all, but I feel there is so much pressure on mothers to EBF. This poor woman desperately needed a break, but people were encouraging her to keep going with the EBF when an uninterrupted night's sleep with her DH giving the DC a bottle would have done her the world of good.

I bf all mine, in case you were wondering.

Op
It could be the breast feeding that saves a child's life . Your allergic dd could have died from the first bottle .

Lots of serious allergies are found through breast milk . This is obviously a milder form of the allergic substance .

My own dd came close to death at 9 weeks with allergies . Bottle feeding would have killed her.

As for pressure to feed , my area is totally geared up to support every choice - perhaps you had a bad experience .

Breast feeding is best , that's why it's encouraged .

Suzyjane - the assumption that all/most research is partial, biased and deeply flawed and that most reflects the interests of the organisation which has sponsored it is often trotted out in support of an attack on breastfeeding, which makes nobody any money. Oddly, this argument is never used to raise concerns about the research done by formula manufacturers. Or at least not on mumsnet.

The argument also never moved any further forward because claims that 'all research is biased' tend to be made by people without a good working knowledge of the ACTUAL specific research of which they speak.

And it's worth recognising ds the starting point of this discussion that

A) most breastfed babies in the uk are mixed fed
B) most could be exclusively breastfed if their mother wished it.

So nationally the problem isn't too many mums being pressured to exclusively breastfeed, it's too many mums who want to exclusively breastfeed being discouraged and undermined by poor support and advice.

somepercentagenotcool great post.

Yes minifingers agree with this.

I find the acceptance on this thread that it's 'normal' and 'ok' for large numbers of mothers - the majority - to be unable to breastfeed deeply depressing.

Can you not see that this is a cultural thing not primarily something which is intrinsic to breastfeeding itself?

When I hit a point of desperation following DS's birth because he was screaming with hunger and wouldn't latch I agreed for the midwife to give him some formula. As I watched her feeding him I burst into tears and every part of me screamed, "This isn't right, why am I letting her do that?"
I was in a poor state in hospital, feeling very low and later that same day I asked for more formula. The Midwife said no and went on to say that if it was my intention to breast feed then offering bottles of formula would negatively impact on that, mainly in terms of affecting my supply. At the time I construed that as 'pressure to EBF' but in hindsight I know she was just stating a fact.

When I came home with DS I contined to really struggle with BF and some nights I felt so at the end of my tether and frustrated that I made DH make up a bottle of formula - I could never bring myself to give it though.

I work in a job where we have lots of training in BF and part of my role is to promote it and encourage it where possible - the problem I had was that had I switched to formula feeding I probably would have felt like a hypocrite and a failure.

A colleague actually said, "I hope you're breast feeding!"

DS is 16 days old today and we have only just cracked the technique and still have the odd bad day but I'm glad I persevered.

Re: ff sometimes helping with PND - yes this is true too.

Especially true in a culture where breasts are sexually fetishised and where there is widespread ignorance about breastfeeding and normal newborn feeding behaviour.

No wonder so many women struggle with it and become down.

Sadly the answer to widespread, culturally rooted breastfeeding challenges always seems to be 'use formula' and 'stop talking about breastfeeding' rather than 'let's make breastfeeding better understood and supported'.

So much for social progress.

In my family, out of 10 babies mine were the only ones ebf, or in fact bf at all. I felt no pressure I just did what I wanted, hard first time around but much easier with second. Formula was never mentioned by anyone. No comments from family and friends either, and as far as I know no negative comments towards my ff relatives. Only you can make yourself feel guilty but as long as you know you have done the best you can you should be happy!

I once worked with a women with PND (in a professional capacity, she was the client) and I would visit her twice weekly. She had been prescribed anti-depressants by her GP but she refused to take them as she was worried the drug would pass into her breast milk and it would mean she'd have to give up BF. She said that BF her baby was the only thing that was positive and purposeful in her life and that if she had to sacrifice that she would sink even further. She had a lot of problems BF - baby had a tongue tie, he wasn't gaining weight very well, his latch was poor and she was having to use nipple shields but she was determined to carry on. I can totally see why issues with BF could progress to PND but I can also see how BF can be positive for mothers with PND. It just goes back to the same fact that everyone is different, generalisations shouldn't be made and all anyone can do is what's best for them and their baby, be that BF or FF.

Not in my experience.

W ds1 the midwifes were urging formula within hours of birth even though I wanted to breastfeed and ds1 was latching on well. They wanted me to give him a bottle so he'd sleep and I could rest.

W ds2 I had it written on my/his notes in big letters that he was not to be given formula.
Given the hugely low rates of breastfeeding in the UK I don't see there is much societal pressure to breastfeed either. Quite the opposite in fact -try feeding a baby over 6 months old yourself and see the reaction.

I've had three. I've had one FF, one mixed fed and one EBF. All three times my experience with HCPs was the same, "how are you feeding baby? Okay, so you're do you have any questions about that? Is there any help you feel you might need?"

This baby is EBF and last week I was struggling with tiredness, a new baby, my other two DC, the house, and basically everything. I asked the HV for advice on switching to FF and she told me (in a nice way) that the first six weeks are the hardest but that it generally gets easier after that and I was so close to that mark (baby was 5wo) so why not keep going and see how I felt. It wasn't pressure, it wasn't "you must continue to EBF", it was a pep talk and she was right, it was just a wobble. A day or two later and I felt much better, I've carried on BFing. If I'd insisted "no actually, I want formula" she'd have helped me switch, she's been my HV since I had DC1, she does the drop-in baby clinic and all the development checks. As a result she knows most of the families around here fairly well, she knew I was wobbling rather than being serious.

I DO think that health professionals should be promoting breastfeeding, but they tend to booby trap it with bad advice and stupid ideas.

I think they also need to discuss the realities. When I BF'd for the first time I was shocked that my nipples were tender until they toughened up. I also didn't realise that let-down could be a bit toe curling in the first couple of weeks. I had no idea cluster feeding even existed let alone what it was. I had no idea what to do when my left nipple cracked after a few days of BFing. I had no knowledge of the symptoms of mastitis (thankfully something I didn't get) or how to deal with a blocked duct or engorgement. I didn't even realise I'd leak milk whenever the baby cried (and sometimes even when he didn't) or that they feed virtually constantly to begin with.

The picture of BFing given to me by the classes (NHS and Sure Start) we went to was that I'd serenely latch baby on, feed for a bit, and then he'd sleep until his next feed roughly three hours later whilst I wafted about the place in my nice floaty scarf (it aids discrete public feeding don'tcha know) burning eleventy billion calories a day without even trying.

I think if they discussed the realities of the first few weeks more alongside the information that in most cases it does get easier then there'd be fewer women give up BFing before six weeks. With my first, thanks to the classes leaving out the potentially off putting bits, I had no idea about the things I listed above so when they happened I struggled massively, I began to mix feed and I gave up completely by six weeks. This time around I expected them and forewarned is forearmed. I kept going and it has gotten easier, in terms of feeding this has been my easiest baby so far as there's no faffing about with bottles and kettles.

Where I live around 80% of women BF at birth. By six weeks only around 10% are still BFing. I think lack of knowledge and what to expect is a major factor in this.

MiniFingers..What planet are you on?! Seriously?! Re my comment about ff helping ease pnd.. It was more the point that it can give the mother a break, some much needed sleep and easier to get baby into a routine which can all aid with her recovery. Not anything to do with your absurd theory!! Weird.

Again, I have BF 2/3 dc. My point is that women should be given a break! Bf or ff. Whatever suits for whatever reason.

I completely agree oddthomas - the impression that is given of breast feeding is total crap in my eyes. Women are not prepared at all for the reality of it and how physically and emotionally draining it can be. I attended a BF session ante natally and it gave this wonderful impression that it includes mother and baby in a serene bubble of BF and bonding and that it's oh such a wonderful experience that comes naturally to both mother and baby. In the 2 hour session nothing was mentioned about how intensely difficult it can be. When I filled in my feedback form I told them this and said that by them generating this 'perfect BF experience' they were setting up mothers to fail and that there should be more focus on the difficulties to parents know what to expect and as a result don't switch to formula because their experience isn't what the antenatal class said it would be. I suggested they bring women into the group who have breast fed and let the talk to the group about their experiences in order to provide a more real picture.

I FF both mine but they are grown up now and the BF mafia seemed less prevalent then. The only pressure to bf came from NCT group who were bat shit crazy I just ignored. I had terrible PND and bf was not an option.