to be pissed off that it's all so unachievable?

[pissedoffwithitall]

I probably am I know.

I have a lot that people would envy - really good job that I enjoy (and pays well, albeit I work hard for it), a lovely home in a very good area, enough money that I can buy treats for me and the DC when I want/replace household stuff without worrying about the cost, my health and fitness, 2 DC, friends.

But I want a partner and another child. And it's basically too late (I might have another year or so's fertility left, but nothings going to change in that time!).

It's not like I haven't tried, I've had some short-term romantic encounters over past years, but none that developed into anything serious or long term. I could've had a baby on my own, but I've already done that twice, and I wanted it to be different this time.

I know several women who divorced/separated within the last couple of years (when I'd already been single for a fair while) and they are now remarried, with a baby (or in one case, 2) and yet I'm still in the same position. I just want a family (and yes, I know I already have one with my DC, but I want more than that) and it's not going to happen.

I've just walked past the local day nursery, and felt tears welling up seeing all the parents collecting their DC. That should be me, but it won't be.

This (as my life is) isn't what I want. But I can't see how I can change it, certainly not in the time I have left.

Mr Right, doesn't exist. People, men, women....are imperfect and trying mostly to get through life, in reasonable fashion.

I married my perfect man the second time (first husband wasn't perfect....I didn't mind) but now I can see that even he, when the bad times come, will not always be there. I am married. Yet at times, strangely alone.

My ds (in somewhat morbid mood - we were discussing our aged cat's death and how much we missed him) asked me what I'd miss most, when it died. I said it doesn't really work like that, that the dead person cannot consciously miss things but those left behind obviously, do. Later, I thought on a different tack, that when my time comes, the only person I won't want to leave will be him, my son.

I love DH. But over time, he has left me down badly. I too haven't probably lived up to his expectations either. Humans. Not perfect.

I think OP that you ought to get on with what sounds to be a pretty good life and I hope you find the person you're hoping to meet, in the process of doing that . But he won't be exactly what you're looking for, is my guess. They never are.

How would I know what your issues are? I am simply making an observation - inability to form a single functional relationship over a 20year period generally means there's something going on. Try therapy perhaps?

I hope you wouldn't mind telling us what was your longest relationship so far OP?

In the last few years I've been involved with several men each for a few months, but these have not been relationships as such, simply dating.

Prior to that, I've had 3 or 4 relationships (where we did consider each other boyfriend/girlfriend etc) of 6 months or more duration, only one that lasted beyond a year.

In the past, those relationships were ended by me. More recently, I've found the men I've been dating simply weren't looking for relationships, so any involvement came to a more natural end.

It s more difficult for a woman to find a relationship once we reach middle age. And the fact that you haven't ever had one makes it even less likely unless you make a major change. Yet on this thread you haven't seemed to show much willingness to change. Did you buy the book that was suggested? Did you sign up for a PAID membership at a dating site? I think therapy for this issue would be worthwhile because something is clearly blocking you whether you know it or not. No one is this unlucky - there had to be a reason.

I'm not convinced I am 'wrong' though, or doing anything wrong, other than insofar as the men I meet aren't relationship minded.

In everyday life, I am frequently told (most recently yesterday, when discussing the last chap I was dating with a friend/colleague) that I am not fussy enough, my standards are too low and these men are unworthy (her word) of me, that I need to aim higher and so on.

so who is "right" - OP
you or your friend?

Have you bought the "Find a husband after 35 (Using what I learned at Harvard Business School) book yet? Rachel Greenwald. Her other book, "Have him at hello" is also excellent.

I don't think I'm setting the bar too low really, I believe I have a reasonable set of criteria and behaviours I consider acceptable in a man. However, responses on this thread have suggested I'm setting it unrealistically high - I found it interesting that in real life, I'm being told the opposite!

I haven't had a chance to get out to my local Waterstones to look at any of the books suggested yet. To be honest however if the advice they offer is based around internet dating, I won't be purchasing them as my experience of this as a medium for meeting men looking for relationships (via both paid and free sites) has been pretty dire, and I don't think a book is going to change that. However if it is able to offer fresh ideas, then I may well buy a copy.

I don't think you're setting your standards too high. Basic, good manners surely, are to be expected? I once knew a man from work, he was a doctor. A pretty decent chat, I thought. He and I started to see each other when I was seconded to another department, miles away. He had the morals of an alley cat (I later found out). ,y mum couldn't understand why I ended the relationship (about 12 months) as she thought him "such a catch!"

I've also been out with a brickie. He was very much the gentleman til I found out he had a fiancé in Edinburgh (200 miles away). The plumber was lovely but sadly unfaithful, many many times. I married the salesman who travelled and had many opportunities to "roam". He never did. Not so far (9 yrs in).

You never can tell is my point. Now, had I not met my present DH, I'd have though it was just ME, getting it wrong every time, bad luck every time.

I think a trip to Waterstones may be helpful. Or not. Sometimes, you have to just keep at it, until you don't want to anymore. That's usually when someone nice comes along.

"A pretty decent CHAP" oops!

This thread makes interesting reading.

The heart wants what the heart wants. Doesn't matter if it's unachievable. You either try to get it, find something else to replace it with, or you ride out the disappointment.

I think focussing on another child is a bit of a red herring pissedoffwithitall. If this was really about another child, it wouldn't matter as much to you about doing it with a partner. Someone like you with your life would simply get down the nearest donor clinic and make it happen.

Nor is this really about being desperate to be in a relationship. In fact, it's quite nice to read about someone who will happily say that they will pass over men who aren't up to scratch for whatever reason but who still wants to try to have a relationship. It's normal for people to want to bond with others, be that family, friends, lovers. You're not needy nor necessarily too picky.

I think this is about wanting to feel like you really matter to someone, that you are the centre of someone's world IMO.

It is a human need to feel wanted and loved, and the love granted to us by our children quite often isn't enough on its own because they sort of 'have' to love us. When they are young and very dependent that level of need can be so intense, and our love for them so strong, that it can masquerade as those feelings of love we crave. But for most people that sort of love comes more often or not from a life partner, though it can also be provided from friends. It's about wanting to feel that you're the first person another independent adult wants to call to tell you their news, you're the first and last person that other independent adult wants to see when they wake and before going to sleep. It's about not being needed but truly and thoroughly wanted - because that makes the person on the receiving end feel as though their presence makes a real difference to the world and that they aren't just interchangeable with another human being. It is a form of validation and we all need it to some extent.

Some people can achieve that feeling through other ways - a fulfilling career for example - but most of us rely on our interpersonal relationships to meet that need, especially life partners, because that is the basic building block of our social structure. But it doesn't have to come from that source.

Does that make you feel any differently about it all pissedoff?

ever heard of Amazon OP? You can have them on your kindle app in minutes. No, the advice is not based around internet dating.

I don't have a kindle, I'm too much of a Luddite, books are far nicer :)

That said, I did make a specific trip to go and seek out said book, and I have to say it's not for me I'm afraid. I'm sure it can work, but it's not something I could see myself doing. The whole idea of marketing myself to the extent of sending mailshots, it's awfully American and I seriously think any friend I even tried to involve in it would say I was mad. My friends already know I'm single. They either don't know any single men, or none they consider worth my time. Sending them photos won't change that, I expect they'd just think I'd finally cracked.

PoundingtheStreets you make some good points. It's not all about a child definitely, much as I want one, I expect I want a relationship more. If I met a man and embarked on a relationship, and he didn't want more children, or was unable to have them, I dont feel my desire for a 3rd child would be so great that I'd walk away from him, in fact I think in some ways it would be easier and make the decision for me that that particular chapter of my life was closed (deep down one of my fears - as well as the fact I may never meet ANYONE, is that I might meet someone who is childless, desperately wants a child, and it doesn't happen due to my age etc). And yes I do want to matter to someone - I only have my DC, and I hope one day they will have their own families. Of course I will always be their mother, but they will become adults, establish a family unit of their own, which is as it should be. But yes, I want to matter to someone, I want to be cared about, and someone to care for. Hence why, as my children have got older, I have perhaps over-invested in friends, who I care a great deal about (which they appreciate, but dont entirely reciprocate, because their lives with partners, siblings, other family are 'fuller' than mine). And I suppose that's why also I've been thinking about babies, not just because my ovaries are heading for their final innings but also because when, in the past, my life was empty, and I had nothing to care for, I found myself pregnant with DC1, and that gave me a purpose, someone who needed me (but also who I very much needed).

So you read it all in the bookshop, did you? You have deliberately picked up on one aspect and used that as an excuse to reject it. In fact, every single suggestion that anyone has made to you on the thrad has been rejected for some spurious, weak reason or another. You clearly do not want to be helped and I for one have had enough of your moaning. For what it's worth, I followed some of the tips (not the one you mention) when I was 38 and living in a city with a very small amount of single men over 30, and most of them were only interested in young Asan girls. In 2 months I am getting married and we could not be happier. For the record, YABU.

And I said Kindle App, not Kindle. If you have a phone with internet or an ipad you have a Kindle.

poundingthe streets lovely post.

A very open and, it seems, honest last post OP.

Maybe this thread will help you work out exactly what your issues are, and find an appropriate solution.

Loneliness (by which I mean that profound loneliness born of not sharing the intimate and mostly boring details of everyday life with anyone) at this stage of adulthood is a huge issue for many people. I don't think there's been another generation facing such high levels of people living their lives alone. I don't know where it is going to lead us as a society.

Anyway, not much help to you me meandering like this. I do wonder whether there might be something in the fact that the common denominator in all your past relationships has been...you. It is quite unusual (although no doubt possible) for someone to unfailingly, by this point in life, pick exactly the same kind of person every time, when each previous failed relationship has ended in disappointment for you. Seems obvious that your current MO isn't working. The fault can't really lie with everyone except you...

Well I'm sure you will reject this suggestion too but I've said it before and I'll say it again. Get some therapy with a good therapist you feel compatible with to work out what's blocking you from having a relationship. No one is this unlucky and there are decent men out there who are lonely want stable happy relationships too. There is a reason why you aren't attracting or even apparently meeting men from this group.

Jessie, no, I didn't read it all. I read the first chapter, and skimmed through a couple of others. Enough to get a feeling that it wouldn't be for me.

I appreciate you say it was successful for you - but did you really follow the book's advice to the letter, doing mailshots, putting aside 10% of your income to find a husband, appointing a friend as your mentor and getting them to contact previous dates, Exs etc? Or did you just take it in terms of an overall philosophy of making the best of yourself, and of any dating type opportunities that might come your way? I get that those elements of the book can work, but I do much of that already. The other parts I am really not sure I'd be comfortable with, and like I said honestly I think my friends would think I was crazy. There is no way any of them would be prepared to act as my mentor (I'm not sure that was the phrase the book used, but whatever the term, I know my closest friends well enough to know their reaction if I asked).

Possibly I should have somewhat disingenuously have said yes, I'll buy the book and follow it's advice to the letter. Even though there is no way I'd be able to. I'd rather be honest and say it just isn't for me. I'm not saying it can't work (clearly it did in your case) but it's not something I could feel comfortable with. I can't imagine I am alone in that.

I am sure you can say well, if you REALLY wanted to meet someone, you'd do it. But then that comes back to the point Pounding made, that it's not that I just want a relationship per se (I have had opportunities, which I have rejected) but that it has to be with the right person, the right relationship, and so on.

Crimea I have been the one to end almost all my past relationships prior to say the last 5-6 years, for various reasons. More recently I have not met men who are seeking a relationship in the first place, or at least not with a woman who already has a career and children (albeit those children are of an age where they are largely independent). I certainly don't pick the same type of person every time, far from it. Unfortunately in my current demographic of men there seems to be a high proportion of ones who want to play the field, or are looking for a younger, childless woman, or who have so many issues it would be foolhardy to consider becoming involved with them. Or whom I am just not attracted to. I am sure (at least, I hope) there are single men outwith those 4 groups, I just haven't met any yet.

Wicked I think I've summed up what's blocking me in the preceding paragraph. I meet men I like, who like me, a great deal in some cases. I have done a number of times over recent years. But they don't want a girlfriend. Unless you are single, and have done any internet dating recently, you won't know quite how many men fall into this category, it's a lot (I know this because it's not just me that has found this, but friends who are both older and younger than me).

Not one person I know in real life, not one man I have ever been involved with (other than the abusive ones, and that was a long time ago) have ever suggested there is anything 'wrong' with me.

YANBU - if you're not happy you're not happy and it is perfectly normal to want what we want, even if (to the outside world) you should be happy with what you've got. I'm sure there are thousands of men and women out there who appear to be married to the perfect person, with perfect children, no money worries and have it all going on - but underneath it all are desperately miserable as, for whatever reason, they are deeply unfulfilled.

The only thing I'd suggest (and it is extreme) is to move location. If the current fishpond isn't cutting it, then maybe a total change to a new area with new fish might throw a whopper or two your way. Of course that will probably mean leaving friends behind, starting anew with no friends on hand can be scary, and it may well involve changing jobs (hardly easy in this climate). But if the well is dry, it's dry, you're not going to change it.

And when you start in a new city, you establish new friends (who might know other single guys) and do new things. I was single (2-3 years of nothing, then the odd 2-3 month 'relationship') until I was 30, when I met DH.

One of the disadvantages of having many friends (as I did) was that they essentially shelter you from meeting blokes you might like. You hang out with them and their other halves, you go out in groups with them and their other halves, you've seen all the men they might introduce you to and there are no new ones appearing. Friends are great, but as a single woman I found that rather than help me meet men, they were the ultimate deterrent!

I'm not saying that's the case for you, but maybe throwing yourself into the great unknown (which would be a huge gamble, and maybe not one you want to take) would be way of seeing if you can meet some man with a similar outlook/desires to yourself.

FWIW - I feel for you, and you have every right to feel pissed off.

Its hard, I do find it somewhat offensive that the OP is advised to follow a book where it says she needs to mailshot people and dediacate a large percentage of her income to ' finding a man' past the age of 35... im quite sure that if this has been the original post people would be telling her she is desperate and needs to lighten up.

Ive been single a long time, and, if you look around, there are quite a few people that have been and would dearly love to be in a relationship. Its never quite as easy as people might think. Unless you have done any kind of dating recently, you really wouldnt have any kind of clue how much it has changed.

I know there is nothing ' wrong ' with me. I have no barriers, but i do expect functioning men who are going to bring as much to the relationship as i am. I do not need to mother someone else other than my child.

I was also ' new' to this town when i moved here.. and didnt meet anyone yet.... so much of this kind of thing is just down to luck, being in the right place, at the right time, with the right person.

Have you considered SIngles holiday?
A week or so doing what you love doing anyway?

OP, I would never read one of those books either. I just know they aren't for me. I was single for 5 years during which time I had DS via a fling with an ex and I definitely thought I would like to fall in love at various points, but that is different from wanting a husband. I couldn't care less if I never get married. I was always just so busy partying and hanging out with my friends, there was never any room for anyone else in my life pre DS. The reason I was single for so long was definitely me. I was really picky and very independent and I didn't give people a chance. I actually met someone at a friend's wedding in January and we've been together for 3 months - very early days, but officially my boyfriend as of last weekend and the first relationship I have had in 5 years. I don't think I would have been interested in him had we met 3 years ago - but he's lovely, reliable, and fun and I am glad I have given it a chance.

I do think a lot comes down to luck - meeting the right person in the right environment. But equally, you need to live somewhere where there is a big enough pool of people. I shared your feelings on online dating - for me it's just too contrived, though I know it works for lots of people. The only advice I can give it to try and broaden your circle of people - maybe find a hobby that you genuinely love - my old running club has about 10 couples that have net through it. But do it because you love it, not because you want to meet someone. I totally get that it's not about meeting anyone, but about the right person - I could have written that myself. But the only way you will find that person is by coming into contact with more people and giving those people a chance, even if you aren't sure initially.

I am the last person to be giving dating advice with my track record, but I really wish you luck OP. And if you find contentment, then maybe the baby thing will cease to matter - or maybe it will happen and surprise you. Either way, I hope it works out.

Wicked I think I've summed up what's blocking me in the preceding paragraph

Fair enough if you don't feel comfortable digging deeper than that, but I think that's a very facile explanation. Everyone goes through dry patches when dating but the fact that you have so little relationship experience at your age makes me think there is something going on worth exploring with someone trained to help you do so. On this thread none of us know you and we clearly aren't saying anything that you seem to have taken on board.

And I do know how hard it is out there. My husband and I met online and married last year. I'm not saying it was easy but I also found there were a lot of lovely men out there looking for relationships. I picked the best one but there are plenty more left to choose from.

Look, my point about the book is not that you are not entitled to disagree with it or decide it's not for you. I am just astonished that, given how low you seem to feel, you would not even bother to spend a few quid and give it a proper read, instead of flicking through and dismissing it. I mean, seriously, it's just a book- what harm could it do if you read it and didn't like or get anything from it? FWIW there is a lot more to it than the aspects you picked out (because you were obviously looking for a reason to reject it) and only a nutcase would follow a self-help book to the letter. But you are too set in your own ways and opinions to even entertain the thought that you might get anything from it. It all smacks of a total lack of openness to trying anything different, despite the fact that doing what you have always done has not worked for you.