Unfairness to childless women

[zeezeek]

It does seem that on here at the moment, as well as in society in general, we seem to be completely unsympathetic towards and misunderstanding towards people who do not (for whatever reason) have children.

I spent most of my adult life without children - after having cancer treatment I assumed I was infertile, so it was a damn miracle when I got pregnant once, let alone twice.

I have lost count of the number of times that I was told that I did not understand because I did not have children; how I had to make allowances for parents because they needed to be with their children; how it was less important for me to see my teacher parents during school holidays than it was for a parent to spend time with their child.....you name the cliché, I heard it.

When my children were born I did not find the meaning of life. At the age of nearly 45 I still wonder if there is one.

Having children didn't suddenly make me appreciate things more - surviving a life threatening illness had already done that.

My dogs are still the centre of my (and my DDs) universe - although my DDs are there as well, even if my dogs are better behaved.

More than anything, I am not more worthy, more important than I was before I had children and I don't see why the world should revolve around me (or my children) just because I happened to have sex with my husband at the right time and get myself knocked up.

Rant over.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

Also, the reason I take holidays in school holidays is because I have no family childcare or other childcare.

This is why most people do it, not because they are selfish and hogging the summer holidays, or Easter ones.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

Twizzleship, you'd be welcome to your long weekends at bank holidays tbh, the bloody school keeps closing and I can't leave DD home alone.

[MidniteScribbler]

Also, the reason I take holidays in school holidays is because I have no family childcare or other childcare.

But that doesn't trump other people's wish to have a holiday at certain times. If you're a parent, you just need to make arrangements for childcare, like many other people do, not just expect other people to never have the peak holiday periods because you have a child. I'm a single mother with no family support either, so I do understand, but that means I need to ensure I have reliable babysitters and care in place. I can't just claim too bad, so sad for everyone else because that is what I want.

[heisenberg999]

Having children is just like I thought it would be. Surely if you are around babies and children 24/7 before you have your own you know what its like?

[Allergictoironing]

I will say to non mothers as a collective group, you either do not understand or you do not care.

I do my best to try to understand and care, and do realise that there are certain problems a working mother will have that I won't. What does make me annoyed is that some (note some not all) working mothers seem to think that their needs or even wants should come first every single time without fail. And that there are a few (again note a I'm saying just a few, not lots) of women who "game" the system when it comes to pregnancy and maternity leave.

[heisenberg999]

Im a working mum and can do any shift as thsts what childcare is for. I think the I can only do term time 9.30-2 brigade are selfish if anyone is

[WillieWaggledagger]

"There are all kinds of misery and hardships that people face that others will make negative remarks about and be vastly insensitive about. That isn't unique to mothers or women who don't have children.

That doesn't change the fact that pregnant women and new mothers are a protected group under the law. The reason they got that protection was because they were and are discriminated against to a far greater degree than people who are not pregnant or not a new mother."

i fully agree with this almondcake. but i would go further to say that all of this is about attitudes to women generally, and their low status in terms of meeting their needs

but i think your comment "non mothers as a collective group, you either do not understand or you do not care" is not fair, even though i imagine it is not meant personally. i do my best to understand (as far as i can, not having children), and i do care, in the same way i care about the circumstances of almost all people i come across and try to avoid making their lives harder through my own actions. i think most people do the same.

[YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime]

I will say to non mothers as a collective group

but we aren't a collective group, we are just as diverse as women you might group together as mothers.

[WillieWaggledagger]

actually, i take back 'i think most people do the same'. what i mean is, i don't think i'm unusual or some kind of saint. because discrimination against anyone including mothers and women in general wouldn't exist otherwise!

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

Heisenberg..I dont have childcare. How is that selfish.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

See...mothers can be harsh to other mothers too it seems.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

Midnite..there is NO childcare. .DD has SN.whrther I 'have to" or not..I can't.

[WillieWaggledagger]

good grief am incoherent this morning

i take back 'i think most people do the same'. what i mean is, i don't think i'm unusual or some kind of saint. because discrimination against anyone including mothers and women in general wouldn't exist if everyone thought about each others circumstances and tried to avoid making their lives more difficult

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

I am definitely coming down on the side of mothers have the hardest time getting judged. .on here anyway :)

[YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime]

Also, the reason I take holidays in school holidays is because I have no family childcare or other childcare.

I take holiday in the school holidays as DP is a HT. I wouldn't like a parent to think their wishes always trumped mine. that's said, most parents I work with seem very reasonable and we make holidays work for everyone - with a little give and take we can all get an acceptable holiday.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

Thanks for your understanding people..off to work now

[heisenberg999]

Fanjo - Its selfish if everyone else is arranging stuff around you. If you cant work all shifts required then a person should sahm

[YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime]

other people aren't going to be that interested in your life as they have their own lives going on.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

I do work all shifts required. .

Maybe read why I cant get childcare.

Guess that means I should be a SAHM in your eyes.

Glad I am a bit more flexible and empathetic.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

Ok..all flame me for being a working parent with no childcare so I take some school holidays off.

Obviously not all as we only get a set amount of hols and DH shares.

Flame away.

It bothers me not as I frankly think your attitude stinks.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

Really am going into work now so go for your lives.

[YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime]

Maybe read why I cant get childcare.

it is realistic to expect others to make sure you get the holidays you need sometimes - but its not realistic to expect to be at the front of the queue all the time.

whatever your reason. because to everyone else it is just your reason. you seem to think everyone else lives a life of roses.

[heisenberg999]

I wasnt talking about you I was saying people that dont are selfish. You must know people who do this? Thats why now workplaces put a stop to it and its first come first served

[badbride]

Seriously? That is so, so arrogant. So basically, you watch a couple of telly program's and read some blogs and feel you know what something is like?

No GreenLands. I said that I had a good, but imperfect, understanding of what it is like. I don't see how that is arrogant at all.

I may not have chldren of my own, but I have been a child and been parented; have close friends who are parents and who tell me what it is like; and live a world that talks extensively about parenthood (motherhood in particular), online, in print and on TV.

So while I do not know exactly what it is like, I have sufficient understanding to empathise with and be supportive of people who have undergone the all-consuming, life-changing transition that is parenthood.

[GrendelsMum]

I was at a women's group recently and someone made what seemed to me to be a really important point about having positive discussions about discrimination between different groups.

She said that it's a really important ability to be able to set yourself around from a debate - so that when people say 'all Xs are selfish' or 'all Ys are manipulative bastards', you don't automatically react as though it's a personal attack on yourself and leap to say that it's untrue, but you stand back and think about what they mean, whether there's any validity to a more general point that they might be trying to express, and why they are might be reacting in what seem to an outsider like an overexaggerated way.

Her example was in talking about sexism, but I suspect that it's just as true between any other groups of people, such as women with and without children.

(I have to admit that it's not somethin I'm very good at, but I am now working on it.)