If you're poor it's basically your own fault, isn't it?

[ReputableBiscuit]

I'm so sick of this attitude, in society in general and on MN specifically. Some people just don't seem to have the imagination to realise that poverty is a complex thing and fucking hard to escape. 'Why don't you try budgeting?', 'how can you call yourself poor when you have a big TV?', 'give up smoking then you won't be poor'. 'Cook from scratch.' It's just not as simple as that. Unemployment, disability, mental health problems, social disadvantage, debt, benefits stoppages... none of these are magically undone by somebody writing a list of their outgoings or learning to cook a hearty potato soup.

Yes..please go and read about this thing called the Real world

If happymummy thinks that ppl stay at home to claim WORKING tax credits im getting a sense of deja vu......ah yes i remember .....ive heard some idiot politicians comment that DLA is an out of work benefit when it isnt.......maybe happy mummy is in politics already

The tax free threshold needs to be higher, eg 15k and people should be paid a living wage not subsistence wages. Silly system where people pay tax and are then repaid in tax credits. It takes the onus off employers. Rent controls and a clamp down on btl landlords too and more social housing. Will any government do this though?

Smugmummy always turns up on these threads spouting her ignorant views. She hasn't learnt a thing from any of the threads she turns up on so it's just pointless even reading what she has to spew this time round.

Just ignore her, she ignores all our posts anyway wether you add facts and figures to them or not.

Fuck it, I'd even go so far as to say she's nothing but a professional troll.

Or some kind of capitalist Tory-bot Smiles

WTC only requires that the couple work 24 hours between them so many have a partner that works that number and then claim CTC and WTC rather than have the other adult work. Plenty on MN admit to being a SAHP and having WTC.

Badvoc, of course you wont get a job if you refuse to pay for childcare. Hardly rocket science is it? Therefore the only person preventing you is you. Not the big bad state etc, yourself.

Jobs may not be as readily available but whilst people are unwilling to look at some jobs as see them as beneath them, wont pay childcare, wont look outside term time hours, want an exact type job etc them its just a cop out for not working.

Fiveleaves, I think a higher tax threashold would be far better. Get rid of tax credits and child benefit and simply keep more of the money you earn. Then nobody gets more money from the state for simply giving birth and everyone is on an equal footing.

If we need to subsidise anything, then it should be childcare. However it needs to have tight controls, no paying for full time when the parent only works the days etc which is currently allowable. Whether it be by making it tax deductible or subsidising nurseries would have to be calculated to see which works best.

Come on now Badvoc, listen to the oh so wise HappyMummy, you only have yourself standing in the way of getting a job.

Oh no wait, you also have the ridiculous price of childcare, a mother that relies on you to be her carer (maybe you could earn enough to pay for a carer too?) and children to look after.

So, Happy, what do you suggest if the job you are offered pays minimum wage and the childcare element of tax credits doesn't even cover it at all? Or if someone has a job with unsociable hours? Where is this magic childcare coming from? Do you have a bank of childminders and nurseries willing to take children from 6pm to 6am? What about those of us with children with additional needs?

You really haven't thought this through at all.

The bottom line is that things have got worse and education is no longer a way out of poverty as there are more graduates chasing the same entry level jobs and the explosion of zero hour contracts and workfare is a disgrace. There are solutions that the government need to be looking into but they're not, choosing instead to strip away a welfare state and force people further into poverty.

Those of us in our 30s whilst not the luckiest (I went yo uni just as loans replaced grants) still has a chance to enter a decent jobs market whereas 20 something's today are screwed. Apprenticeships and alternatives to uni are one option.

Cunk...yes. Yes, I see now.
I suppose that - after being called to my mums in the early hours, going with her to a and e and then getting home at 4 am, up with the dc at 6.30 then school run, then back to hospital/mums/dr, then school run again, then do dinner/homework/baths , then go back to mums..l am sure I could maybe fit in a paper round about 5am...
Just lazy really....

^ that was sarcasm btw :)

Five...I will certainly be advising my dc to do apprenticeships. It's what my dh did and did his degree though work too.

HappyMumofOne

I am all ears waiting for you to tell me how it's possible to live on £600 for everything? Do tell....

You do without lottie only proper people deserve any comfort in life. Does it make me evil to envy proper people and long to be a proper human being. I know I have no right to be, but I keep wishing.

I advise my children to emigrate.

we should all live off the land or move to south korea

Funnily enough Expat, we were going to emigrate. Only he fucked off without us (we had the visas and everything!), hence why I'm in this situation.

Oh and it wasn't poor judgement in their father, I was with him for over 12 years before he ran off and left us in it.

Some of the attitudes in this thread are shocking :(
Don't people realise?
It only takes a second for everything to change.
Everything
My beloved dad died - suddenly and unexpectedly - last July. He was only 67.
Leaving my mum who then later that same day suffered a heart attack.
One minute we were all chatting about the wedding we were going to later that day and the next my dh and I were doing CPR on my dad.
Since then my life has changed irrevocably.
I am (trying) to deal with my own grief, that of my mother, my sister who is close to a breakdown, be a good mother to my young dc and be a good wife to my dh.
Since then also I have had an emergency op (in nov last year) and last week my dads sister died after we had been helping my cousin look after her at home.
I realise NONE of he above is considered a "worthy" use of my time by people like mummytoone but you know what?
I am ok with that.

Bloody hell Badvoc thats some run youve had there.

Absolutely...it when you think about situation like yours where people and their care need to be put first is made difficult because of the society we live in. People then find themselves in a right bind. It does make you ponder wider questions.

Badvoc that sounds awful. You don't need to justify yourself to anyone. Now is not the right time for you to work. Everyone's situation is different. I only came onto the thread to challenge the lazy generalisation that if you're born poor you are stuck in poverty and if you are wealthy you must have been born into wealth. Not as simple as that.

You are right, circumstances can change in a second.

But that's just it Five.

Every single one of these threads ends up with one or more posters feeling the need to explain and justify themselves. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

It's sickening.

I get it, Badvoc. My life was utterly ruined by the horrible illness and death of my little girl. We were also stunningly destroyed financially, no thanks in part to 'benefits reforms' which meant we had no access to help until our daughter was 3 months ill (she had cancer).

Yep.
And I don't see it getting better anytime soon :(
My time and what I do is not valued simply because I am not paid for it.
It's all a bit fucked up really when you think about it.
If I had been paid for caring for my mum and aunt then - under the current govt spin - I would be classed as a worthy human being.
I don't get paid (And don't want to get paid) for caring for those I love.
I am not without hope.
I know there are many, many a lot worse off than me.

Expat.
I simply cannot imagine what you and your family went through...my brain just won't let me think of such a loss :(
Yes, the financial side is scary.
I am glad we moved back to my home town - especially after what's happened - but financially we will be paying for it until dh retires (if he ever does)