If you're poor it's basically your own fault, isn't it?

[ReputableBiscuit]

I'm so sick of this attitude, in society in general and on MN specifically. Some people just don't seem to have the imagination to realise that poverty is a complex thing and fucking hard to escape. 'Why don't you try budgeting?', 'how can you call yourself poor when you have a big TV?', 'give up smoking then you won't be poor'. 'Cook from scratch.' It's just not as simple as that. Unemployment, disability, mental health problems, social disadvantage, debt, benefits stoppages... none of these are magically undone by somebody writing a list of their outgoings or learning to cook a hearty potato soup.

Read "Chavs" by Owen Jones. It's brilliant and explains very well how this attitude came about. You're not wrong by the way and I am only surprised how much I see it here on MN.

Yanbu

I can't stand the "do some cleaning/ironing/babysitting" nonsense to make extra cash. Get a childminder/nanny so you both can work blah blah blah. Where I live there are agencies and professionals that cover all of the above "jobs" and I would be viewed with great suspicion if I tried to get that kind of work.

YANBU. That attitude is tiring, tiresome, narrow-minded and just plain wrong.

Well budgeting, giving up smoking and cooking from scratch certainly does help.

Of course it's not going to make that person rich, but it would certainly help.

I know some very well off people through work and it is shocking how strongly they believe that people can just stop being poor if they want to.

One of them is always saying that if poor people can't get jobs they should just start their own businesses. They really have no idea.

worra why do you assume poor people smoke?

Some people are poor through their own doings, some people are not.

You cannot box all "poor" people together.

When I see people on tv proclaiming how poor they are whilst puffing on a fag and drinking a can of beer.....well, you can see why it gets peoples backs up.

That's too general OP.

Of course cooking from scratch, learning how to budget properly, giving up smoking would help some people, to a certain extent.

YANBU. Stupid, narrow-minded, ignorant thinking, right up there with, 'They all smoke, drink, eat takeaways, have gadgets,' bollocks.

TheXxed, it was the OP who assumed poor people smoke.

YY to reading 'Chavs'. We have gone back to being like the Victorians and thinking about the 'deserving poor' versus the 'undeserving poor'.

Not saying all poor people smoke but if you smoke 20 fags a day that's €70 a week so complaining that you can't afford food while puffing away just seems wrong. It's a choice.

worra why do you assume poor people smoke?

I don't. I was answering the point in the OP

Surely this has to be looked at case by case?
In some circumstances no, in others, yes. One can't generalise.

Gawd, here we go again! They smoke and drink, that's why they are poor.

Come back in 10 mins. and there will be posts about flatscreen tellies and iPhones . . .

I really think some people didn't read the opening post properly...

It was the OP who mentioned smoking first!

Betty, both those things are addictions and someone living hand-to- mouth is perhaps not in the best place to be addressing their addictions.

When someone drags themselves out of the poverty trap, overcomes their many related problems, builds up their non existent self esteem and self confidence and are mostly feeling fulfilled THEN, they might be in a frame of mind where they could start working to quit the booze and fags.

expat it was the OP who mentioned smoking and big TVs in the opening post. It's a bit unfair to have a go at people who use those words in answer to the OP.

tbh you dont really notice a difference if you quit smoking in spends unless you save what you would have spent.. which you wouldn't do if you were strapped for extra cash.

If you're poor you are not allowed any kind of luxury or distraction ever! No smokes, no alcohol, no telly and you must just sit and stare at walls or do free things (like have sex maybe?).. Then you must go and line up at peoples workplaces so they can kick and spit at you as they go in on a morning.

Then people rub their hands with glee at the taking apart of the welfare state and know that people beneath them are having a hard hard time.. because it's their own fault.

They would get a hell of a shock if the bottom dropped out of their world and they ended up on their uppers and need that same welfare state they let get dismantled in front of their eyes.

FGS stop focussing on the smoking and discuss the rest of the OP. Being in poverty IS a complex situation and no two situations are the same. It won't be solved by getting off the B&H. The very fact that it is being fastened on here shows how restricted your thinking is.

And flatscreens for the record

I don't see what's so wrong about letting taxpayers who underwrite the welfare state express an opinion. It's only fair.
Let the flaming begin, I guess.

Yes, I realise she mentioned it in the OP, in the context that 'give up smoking' is often thrown out on the assumption that all poor people smoke, don't know how to budget, don't cook from scratch and have large TVs.