To challenge couple in restaurant who judged my DCs?

[TotesAmazebelle]

Had dinner out earlier in an Italian restaurant. I agreed that the DCs (11 and 9) could play their Kindle Fires for 10-15 minutes when we got there. This is not sth they do often - they never usually play them in a restaurant or even around the dinner table at home.

Two tables away a couple (mid 60s) were tutting head shaking and he said "the trouble is they lose the art of conversation". I don't think they intended me to hear it, but it came over loud and clear.

I waited until they had finished their starter then approached them. I said in a quiet voice that I was sorry for interrupting them and that I heard what they had said. I said I wanted to let them know that my children had had a busy day at school and the eldest one had just had a one hour language tuition session after school. That I said that they can play for 15 minutes and that it's not sth we would normally do blah blah. They apologised for the comment and said they just think it's a shame when kids have their faces in devices all the time (they said they didn't have children of their own but have noticed it with nephews and neices etc.). I actually agree with this whey is why I don't let mine play at the table etc. and I told them this. We actually had a pleasant conversation about it.

I clearly felt the need to challenge their judgemental view. I was sat there for some time trying to decide whether to say something or not and the saying something clearly got the better of me. I just felt that they know nothing about us and what we would normally do. I didn't want them to go away with an assumption about me/my kids/other kids (am a bit sick of hearing about the downfall of the youth of today from older generations).

But was I being unreasonable? Should I have just ignored them (after 15 minutes kids had put Kindles away and we were chatting amongst ourselves and maybe they'd have seen this).

Was once at a UK airport and heard a German couple talking to each other in German about how crap English people are

Friend of mine had a German couple being rude about him in a restaurant until he leaned over and introduced himself. Professor of German at a very very famous university

I probably would have said nothing.

But if I had had a couple of glasses I might have pointed out that others could hear their conversation, and asked if they were happy with that?

"I've been listening to your conversation you know."

"That's nice. Can we get back to our meal now please?"

@JeanSeberg

Educated them about what though?

About her circumstances

@UptheChimney

Oh, the smugness of the righteous! Because of course, this couple knew nothing not being mummies and all that ...

Yeah, because the couple passing judgement loud enough to be overheard in the restaurant weren't self righteous at all....

@Only1scoop

Great to be 'educated' by some earwigging diner whilst you attempt' to enjoy an evening out

If 'enjoying an evening out' comprises of sitting there criticising people on another table loud enough that you're overheard, then there's a good chance you'll get pulled up for your rudeness.

About her circumstances

Now I wonder who that "education" was designed to benefit...

Why would a couple of strangers be presumed to give a shiny shite about her circumstances, much less be grateful for the earful they were subjected to?
The sheer arrogance...

YABU.

Personally I think the couple were right and if I saw any children in a restaurant playing on a DS/gadget I'd probably be saying the same thing.

No way on this Earth, no matter how hard their day had been, would my children even step into a restaurant holding an electronic device, let alone play on one at the table!

It was extremely rude of you to confront them.

You could have just shrugged the comment off but you probably ruined their meal out.

And in doing so you made yourself look like a complete knob.

Now they'll go away telling everybody about this "disgraceful mother and her two children playing on these gadgets....what has come to the world?...that never would have happened in our day..." blah blah

LaQueen oh I can imagine it. Years ago I was having a scone and a cup of tea in the cafe of a stately house with my son then aged 7. An old woman came up to me and berated me loudly for not thanking her for holding the door open for me in the ladies. I've no idea if she did or not, I didn't remember seeing her. I was there on my own with my son as husband and I we were going through a bad patch and frankly my mind was on other things. She wouldn't stop and no amount of "I'm sorry, I didn't see you, I'm thinking of other things, my life is currently in ruins" would make her shut up. She ruined the day.

Ok I didn't thank her, but her behaviour was far, far ruder.

I once spoke to the next table in a restaurant - they were so loud and offensive (racist jokes) we had asked to be moved. I told them what I thought of them before we left.

I was very, very hormonal.

It was excruciating for DH, for me, and possibly for the teenagers I was addressing. I can't pretend anybody benefited, unless by some miracle they toned it down after we moved. Unlikely, given the jibes they aimed at us as we left.

Just don't do what OP and I did, anyone. You'll look like a prize twat.

Is a conversation private if you're having it loudly in a restaurant? What level of privacy can we expect/demand when eating out?

I think it depends on the place, as you could be seated school bench style, or on eperate tables spaced a chair's width apart, in booths, or private enclaves/rooms.

This couple could be overheard. I hope no one gets to 60 and doesn't understand what level their 'indoor voice' needs to be to not be overheard. And, if they were hard of hearing as has been suggested up thread, surely they would have been more aware that they would have to have been speaking to each other in raised voices to be herd by each other, and that they could therefore be overheard by others.

Based on this, I don't feel like the couple had a reasonable expectation that their remarks were part of a private conversation, and more suspect they were a ig at the OP. And, in that situation, I conclude that what she did was appropriate- challenge their view in a non aggressive way.

Why all the jokes about 'Chinese', maybe I don't have a sense of humour but... where's the joke?

the prevalence of electronic devises has helped kill conversation

People used to be anxious and judgemental over TV too.

Ok so this appears to be some Mumsnetters view of the world.

You are out in public. Someone in the vicinity is doing something you do not approve of. It does not impact you, or your family, in any way whatsoever. You are apparently perfectly within your rights to comment loudly about what this other person is doing, so loudly in fact that they can hear you and yet whatever they are doing does not impact you, or your family, in any way.

If the other person hears you criticizing what you are saying - as they are likely to because you aren't using your indoor voice, then they apparently are the crazed loon if they choose to take issue with your unnecessary commentary about their activity.

Imagine if the elderly couple had said "Gosh there's a lot of fat porkers about these days guzzling big meals " and the OP was overweight. Should she just suck it up on that occasion,because well there is a lot of fat people and perhaps the elderly couple weren't referring to her. I think the MN consensus would be rather different in that case.

So why should her parenting be on trial and her evening meal spoiled by loud criticism, which apparently she should just let wash over her, or indeed suck it up because she is completely in the wrong . What her DCs were doing had zero impact on the couple, when they chose to start mouthing off loudly, they were the ones with no manners, not the OP.

rookiemater - they were the ones with no manners, not the OP

No her children were the ones with no manners! DS's at the table in a restaurant? WTF? Incredibly rude!

Fair enough it didn't really have an impact on the other couple but I think they were right in what they said.

Maybe parents need to be reminded of table manners themselves sometimes.

As far as how loudly they said it - maybe they didn't realise how loud they were, the OP said herself that they were elderly so maybe they were slightly hard of hearing.

If the OP had a child/children with a disability and had overheard comments obviously directed at her parenting of them and criticism of their behaviour I can absolutely understand why she'd want to challenge any comments she overheard and possibly educate people at the same time.

Overhearing general comments about electronic gadgets which might have been stimulated by her NT(presumably) children's activity is hardly in the same league.

Parents of children with hidden disabilities will be sick to death of being judged and upset by the ignorance they encounter. Parents like the OP just seem like self righteous rude idiots determined to tell others what brilliant parents they are. If, as LaQueen says, it ever even happened.

Mid sixties is old is it?

It's a bit disingenuous to suggest that the couple were having a general chit chat about electronic gadgets. The OP states that they were shaking their heads and as they were two tables away from her, it is pretty certain that it was more than just idle conversation.

My understanding of etiquette is that it is incredibly rude to remark on someone else's behavior if it is not impacting on your own.

I'm not quite understanding the hysteria around the kindle fires - would it be ok for the DCs to draw, or read a book instead and if so why, as these are still ways of not making conversation.

And no daisydoo222 I wouldn't really appreciate being reminded of table manners by a childless elderly couple when I'm out at a restaurant.

Provided I have ensured that my DS is not impacting negatively on their meal in any way by making sure he sits in his chair at the table, does not make any unnecessary noise and eats in a polite fashion, then I'm pretty sure I have discharged all the obligations to other diners in the vicinity.

I think gadgets are killing children's social and playing skills. I also think that over use affects their behaviour.

TBH I'm not really that arsed. My kids spend a very limited amount of time on gadgets. My stepkids have every gadget under the sun and it doesn't go down well when we restrict their use but they are much happier children when they're not using them.

I think parents rely on them far too much as a way of keeping their children quiet so they don't have to bother talking to them or playing with them.

I dread to think what this generation's kids are going to turn out like because of this shit lazy parenting that so many parents try to convince themselves is OK.

So was it Mandarin or Cantonese ?

Sorry can't be arsed to scan the whole thread.

Oh OK it was What-difference-does-it-make-what-language-it-was-?! language.

Things are crystal clear now. :)

Hilarious! The OP's offspring demonstrate inability to sit chatting at a table in a restaurant.

May or may not have been commented on by other diners, at least a table away.

OP heaves over to give them a lesson in etiquette; during course of her generous opinion-sharing concedes that she too disagrees with children who use screens instead of speaking in restaurants.

OP also indulges in some toe-curling show-offs about her unbelievably over-scheduled children.

I have had such fun reading this. So glad you didn't stick by your principles, OP, and take the poor kids home if they were too wilted to chat.

And I bet the couple were thrilled at your gauche interruption of their evening.

Like LaQueen, my bullshit radars are beeping.

I don't believe anyone could be so ignorant yet so self-righteous and then seek validation from strangers.

4/10

I'm more shocked by the posters saying "elderly" and "old" about a couple in their mid-sixties! Hee!

If this actually happened I would have told you to sit back fucking down. Then I would have talked really loudly about how rude it is to comment on a private conversation.

But personally I think you're pulling our legs.