Am I unreasonable to be thinking of taking this further? (Teacher problem)

[Feminine]

My eldest son (15) has been in some trouble at school recently. Nothing that serious -something that would not be considered a problem outside of it, (I don't want to give too many details) but something that the school is not happy about.

I have spoken to a couple of the teachers about this, as they have called me to inform.

I've always been polite, and respectful. As, have they, or so I thought at the time.

Anyway...last week a couple of my son's friends were in detention. Talking right by them ( probably around a corner) they were heard to say: (about DS)

" Well *** gets his attitude from his Mother" "yeah, with a Mother like that ..." "yeah what can you expect..."

Then they noticed his friends...

The Teacher told him: " You didn't hear any of that right?"

Of course his friends have told him. I've no reason to doubt them.

I don't want to get his friends in to trouble, however I can't let this rest. I think it is beyond unprofessional.

Should I let it rest, or talk to someone at school higher up?

He doesn't sound like a brat.
Mine's 19, and his older sister is constantly amused by the fact that brat in Russian means brother.

Ds is almost 8 and dd almost 5.

lcan my son is 15. It is a world away from parenting primary school children. I also have 2 of those, your methods will need to adapt as they grow!

goblin that is funny!

I understand why you are upset, but I don't think you have a leg to stand on in terms of going in.

Even teachers talk about their pupils and also their families, they shouldn't do it when being overheard but it is naive to think they don't do it at all. I speak to my colleagues about different students, it's a way of letting off stress/thinking through situations/coping with it all. Surely most people do this? (the mistake being that they shouldn't have done so within earshot of the pupils).

I also don't think you can guarantee your sources or what was said- who knows what the exact words were, or what tone was used, or indeed why these boys then rushed to your son to tell him- if I overheard a teacher saying a bad thing about a mum I may not say anything at all. It's all hearsay, not sure if the boys came to you directly, even worse if it is filtered through your son- it sounds like they are all determined to stir up trouble and position themselves as the innocent ones, hard-done by by the nasty school. I really don't think you could go into school with this piece of evidence and get anywhere, you would also be dragging in your son and these two boys again who are already in trouble (and essentially calling them tell-tales).

Also factually, your son does have a questioning attitude to rules, when given this detention/punishment, he questioned it instead of just accepting it. When he told you about it, you also questioned/clarified it instead of first accepting it. Your mind-set was that it was an injustice and he isn't being treated fairly compared with others. So, to some extent what they said was true-you have an attitude of questioning rather than an attitude of full support from the off. I can't see how being very nice about it makes it anything less than questioning and having a mum intervene to fight battles for a 5 year old boy will always raise eyebrows, even if you are in the right.

I don't disagree with anything you've done really, I have been known to go in and question things, or phone up places and ask why or ask to see more info on something, but in doing so, I'm well aware that I might be seen as a bit of a pushy stroppy mother, and I'm happy with that (people know you will defend your corner).

I think you need to get over this really I can't see any good outcome of complaining, if you complain, you are simply confirming you do have a challenging questioning attitude, and the teachers will think this, even if you manage to police them into not expressing it out loud in front of students.

I know the punishment for a 15 year old getting into trouble at school will be worse.

I will still continue to support the school.

Oi, goblin!

Don't send him to FE - then I'll get him and his independent self... and fully supportive mother

He doesn't sound like a brat, I teach enough of those to know! FE may be a good place for him, an apprenticeship would be good, if he knows what he wants to do.

But do let it go, Feminine. You'll tie yourself in knots otherwise!

FE did brilliantly with my Aspie, Nomama. Intelligent, bespoke teaching.

I like to think we try

I am mentoring a lovely Aspie lad at the moment. To be honest he is an absolute scream to work with, but I can see how he would have struggled at school. He is often aware as soon as he does 'it', he has a very good memory and can often tell me what my response to his response is going to be.

I imagine that that could have been wearing for a teacher with large class sizes. I am currently teaching him some psychology, within another subject. He is most troubled by the subject, but asks some of the most intelligent - and taxing - questions I have ever heard from a 17 year old.

Reading that back, it sounds very patronising, but he lightens my working week and I really look forward to seeing his final results. We have worked very hard together and I hope his mum thinks we are serving him well.

Mind you, I'm still getting over the shock that Teacher's say mean things about the kids at all.

Don't know why? just thought they didn't.

Hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha!

Also, the misuse of the apostrophe in the word 'teachers' throughout this thread has been driving me mad!

'Also, the misuse of the apostrophe in the word 'teachers' throughout this thread has been driving me mad!'

Shhhhh.

yo you make yourself look like an ass- when commenting on spelling.

thetallestthank you for such a detailed response. I appreciate it. :-)

Firstly I think your DH has a right to saywhatever the hell he wants on his FB page about the school as long as it uis not an untrue statement of fact, and good on him and you for questioning what you see as an unjust punishment.Nothing wrong with that.Nothing wrong at all unless you want him to grow up to be a doormat!
The teachers' behaviour was deeply unprofessional and if it could be proven should be a disciplinary offence.

Hi Feminine - If what has happened is what I think I have figured from this thread then I think you are on the line of being unreasonable.

Does this sound about right - DS got in trouble for something questionable (for example, clip on tie instead of proper one say) and was given detention, despite others doing it too. Then asked for clarification as to why it was a problem (which, tbh - I can see why he would in the above kind of scenario) and was then told the obvious - because that's the rules etc. and asked not to stir trouble (not saying he would - but by asking him not to facebook it that is essentially what they meant) .... he was then asked on facebook if it was true and just said something along the lines of "yes, have detention for wearing clip on tie" - with no further remarks about how rubbish the school is etc. or swearing or anything. You've then been informed about it, asked the same as on your son (e.g - why is that a punishable crime - a tie is a tie surely). Then his friends in detention heard the teachers discussing you and your attitude etc.

And then - flabbergasted by it all - you've discussed it with another teacher who was already in the loop but who is on the same page as yourself regarding the matter?

If the above is the kind of thing that has happened - and forgive me if it is not I've just found the thread a bit hard to follow and this is what I deduced - then you WNBU to question the school and neither was your son - even if a rule is a rule it is never a bad thing to get an explanation so you can understand why and wrap your head around reasoning etc. as it could help you to follow other rules in future!

But YWBU to then discuss it further with the other teacher as that is pushing into the realms of 'one of those' mothers.

The teachers WBU to be discussing it within earshot of pupils, and frankly a bit pathetic to be discussing it at all. It is a shame that kids automatically get thought of as anarchists and trouble makers or dragged up scoundrels when they question authority in an inquisitive manner. I think that it shows somebody who does actually respect what you have to say as they are giving you the chance to respond and not just doing the usual "yeah yeah, whatever. Rules suck. I'll be in with another fake tie tomorrow" that you see from the real troubled kids. And this is coming from a secondary school worker btw, before anybody flames me.

Ooops ... didn't finish.

I don't think complaining further or bringing it up again would resolve anything though. I would maybe just discuss with your son that some people are open to growth and others expect you to just understand and accept their authority. And that when he is given a punishment it is most likely always going to be justified and to talk to you if he doesn't understand anything about it first so you can either explain to him yourself or point him to somebody who can who won't misinterpret him.

As somebody with what I think was a similar attitude to your son growing up, and who still has it to be honest - I got into a lot of trouble not understanding when to stay quiet and just silently fume.

kerry thank you. You are very close (in your assessment) to what actually happened... Throughout this whole episode, ds has remained polite. However, in questioning the teacher's he gave himself a bad name. I won't take this further, I don't want his friend to be in any trouble. :-) and from gaining knowledge from posters here... It may make it more difficult for my son and his teachers in the future.

Oh and just to let the grammar police know... My phone adds the extra ' when I post.

;-)

Yoni I'm still laughing at the teachers not discussing kids comment too.

and parents

It's also knowing when to stand up for yourself.

When I was in year 7 girls wasn't allowed to wear trousers, yet boys was. I can't remember who started it but someone did and others follow suit in wearing trousers to school. Fully supported by our parents.

In the end the school uniform policy was amended to allow girls to wear trousers.

tea I am not a teacher. I suppose I expected better. Especially from primary school teachers. I have probably am too trusting. In my opinion it is unprofessional.

It definitely would make it worse for son in future I am sad to say.

When I was 11 years old I wasn't allowed on a school trip for bad behaviour because the shoes I had worn were 'scruffy' and it was the second time I had been warned that week (they had broken - parents couldn't afford new ones until the week after) but the school never actually informed my parents that I was no longer going. I questioned it - was told the usual stock response and that circumstances didn't change the outcome (they had been informed prior that we couldn't afford new shoes. I have to have them custom made for a condition I have so they are not cheap! Ironically the reason we couldn't afford them was because we had paid for the school trip!) It was a whole year trip to a theme park. Only 12 or so of us didn't go - most of them had been told in advance and it was only me and one other girl who were told on the day that due to that mornings circumstances we were no longer going.

I went straight home to sulk but my dad was furious that he hadn't even been told I wasn't on the trip any longer as I could've just wondered off, with my spending money and trip money in hand (around £30 total), and ended up anywhere doing god knows what. And this was when we didn't have mobile phones etc.

He marched up to the school to complain the next day when the teacher in question was back on school grounds - admittedly he wasn't very patient or quiet as he was furious - and was told that 'my argumentative behaviour had distracted him' and it was my fault.

He labelled me a trouble maker then and there and his assessment of me stuck in his mind for my entire duration of my stay at that school. The deputy head of year who had sat in on the meeting obviously heard him say all this etc. and so the two of them from then on thought I was some sort of vicious two headed she devil and no matter what got fed back to them about me whether is was ridiculous or not was never properly investigated - I was always punished harshly - and they always ended the meetings with "It's families like yours that make our jobs hard"

Definitely not worth that kind of thing happening. Sad to say it still does sometimes =[

And stories like that are why you send your round peg kids to FE. We quite like them!

But even we get those parents. You all know them. You all have friends who are them. You might be one yourself - as might I!

what KerrySkye said. I can see your side and if what you have been told is true then that's terrible. I was to find out how much the teachers talk like this from my friend who is a TA . I have also had first hand experience of unprofessional behaviour from teachers at my sons school talking about children etc. It's life unfortunately. For every teacher like this there are loads more that aren't. As much as it pains me I would let it go.

Actually Lucy, in your case it might not be the teachers who are being unprofessional but your friend the TA certainly is - she broke everyones confidence when she spoke to you about any specific incidence.

Teachers are allowed to discuss their students. Sometimes, when they have been awful brats, we are even allowed to say how much we dislike them, hate them, wish to stab them with blunt sticks or even take their parents aside and give them a 'dose of the truth'.

We can be very inventive, especially when tired or we've just had enough of one in particular. We often share our problems in a most unPC manner. You would too if you spent your entire working day monitoring every word, deed and even thought that passed your way, just in case. It can be very trying sometimes and we need to vent. We usually choose to vent to other professionals who will hear it for what it is - a quick catharsis and very often not even about the child we really dislike. We just need to be sure it said within the inner sanctum - the place no student is allowed and only colleagues can enter.

That your friend the TA has told you about this means she doesn't get it. That she has not realised that, as a TA, a valued colleague, she needs to recognise such things for what they are - often a vital letting off of steam. She certainly needs to be told that what she is doing - talking to you about what her colleagues have said - is actually a dismissable offence.