Am I unreasonable to be thinking of taking this further? (Teacher problem)

[Feminine]

My eldest son (15) has been in some trouble at school recently. Nothing that serious -something that would not be considered a problem outside of it, (I don't want to give too many details) but something that the school is not happy about.

I have spoken to a couple of the teachers about this, as they have called me to inform.

I've always been polite, and respectful. As, have they, or so I thought at the time.

Anyway...last week a couple of my son's friends were in detention. Talking right by them ( probably around a corner) they were heard to say: (about DS)

" Well *** gets his attitude from his Mother" "yeah, with a Mother like that ..." "yeah what can you expect..."

Then they noticed his friends...

The Teacher told him: " You didn't hear any of that right?"

Of course his friends have told him. I've no reason to doubt them.

I don't want to get his friends in to trouble, however I can't let this rest. I think it is beyond unprofessional.

Should I let it rest, or talk to someone at school higher up?

What are you more pissed off about, that they talked about you within earshot of students (which was an obvious accident) or that they have got an impression of you that you don't agree with?

If it's the first, I'm fairly sure the teachers know they shouldn't have done it, given their reaction when seeing the students. You could bring it up with the school but it would look like you were trying to get them into trouble thus validating the impression they have of you.

If it's the second, then that's the way life goes sometimes. Let it go.

If you are sure that you have been nothing but supportive, I wonder if your son (or his friends) have been assigning things to you falsely when speaking to the teachers?

I've known pupils say to me things along the lines of 'My mum said I didn't have to do homework as it's a waste of time', but when it has come up in conversation with the parent it turns out to not be true.

The teachers shouldn't have had the conversation where little ears could hear, but that could be what prompted it.

On a side note, failure to hand in homework, or complete it to a standard appropriate to the child's ability, is a detention in my current school and all I've been in.

Ah - I think I'm beginning to understand. Your ds broke a school rule, was given a detention and then proceeded to argue the toss. 'I had every right to do it, it isn't against the law'....Something on those lines?

Then you spoke to his tutor and HoY, seeking 'clarification' but effectively backing him rather than the school?

Of course, the teachers shouldn't have said what they did within earshot of the pupils, but I can see where they are coming from. However polite you were, the end result is your ds thinks he's got the right to question authority, because you agree with him and you're prepared to take it up with his teachers. I'm sure you can see how, from 'authority's' point of view this attitude is distinctly unhelpful. Schools have rules, no point if they don't enforce them.

I'd let it be. If you take it further, as pps have said, you are only going to confirm their opinion of you as an unsupportive parent.

Jenny... You might be right actually. That might make sense. I know that other students ha been doing the same thing, but have remained unpunished. It is possible that my son said some thing along those lines... I have come off the computer, so not only do l now talk like a robot, it is hard to reply to all the latest comments. I will reply again later. Thanks for all your perspectives.

out yes. That is almost it. Thank you. At no point was I rude, nor ds actually... But lavender understand how this might come across to a school.

But i obviously ;-)

The teachers probably couldn't have their little whinge in the staff room because they had to supervise the pita detention!

They were probably fed up. I'd let it go

The teachers shouldn't have had that conversation if there was any possibility it could have been overheard.

That aside, I work in a very strict school. If we weren't very strict, behaviour would be very challenging, and learning would be disrupted. We are very fussy about the little things because, IME, if you're fussy about those the big things don't happen nearly as often.

Parents choose our school for their child because they like the excellent behaviour and excellent learning which this allows. But then some parents proceed to argue/ back their children over minor infractions "because it's a petty rule" or "it wouldn't matter in the real world" or "it won't affect their learning". But the "little" infractions do affect learning - the time I spent yesterday supervising a detention could have been spent running a revision session for Yr 11, for example. So it is irritating that parents want the excellent behaviour, and excellent learning opportunities, but then assist their DCs in engaging in behaviours which damage those things.

Not suggesting this is what you did, OP, as I don't know the back story. I think it's really tricky as a parent of teenagers to foster and encourage their natural sense of personal freedom and rights, but balance this with being a member of a complex community like a school.

lol at goblin. ;).
I've seen kids really really damaged by parents. Munchausens for eg. False diagnoses of mental conditions. Rejection of adopted kids in favour of birth kids

Terrible. They do fuck you up.

(Sorry. Was side tracked)

The teachers shouldn't have had the conversation in earshot of the pupils but in an average day the only opportunity I get to discuss pupils is often in a detention or in passing in a corridor. I don't make it to the staff room most days.
It's amazing how so many rules become trivial when it's a parent own child breaking them and how many parents pull the 'well x, y and z were also doing and they weren't punished' card. That ok then because it must completely absolve your child from breaking the rules. Detention for not doing homework is a sanction at every school I've worked at too.

bulby that isn't why my son was given one... My son's friends were there for that reason. It is obviously difficult to know what my son did, as l don't want to divulge here. I have no problem with his being punished. I have/had a massive problem with the teacher's talking negatively about me, within earshot of his friends. The teachers have never met me in the flesh! Teens do all kinds of odd, this is the first time he did it and was punished. Thanks all for the helpful feedback. I can assure you, I am not raising a delinquent! ;-)

To be fair though, it would really annoy me if my ds was punished for something other kids were doing too, but was singled out. I wouldn't be happy about that, so I would have wanted to get clarification on that, not on the punishment itself.

Exactly Merry that has been the whole crux of the matter.

:)

People have a right to confidentially and professionalism.

This isn't about other rights and wrongs, it's purely about professionalism and confidentiality. If the story is true, it wasn't just the OP that was being maligned her, it was her son to. Then too top it off, when caught out being unprofessional breaking confidentiality, the teachers didn't acknowledge they'd been wrong and declared that the pupils who overheard this then lie by omission.

There are no mitigating circumstances for the teachers and the expect ion of professionalism and confidentiality isn't on a scale of how good or bad their pupils are.

Lizzie has it spot on!

I agree the teachers should not have been speaking of pupils in front of others but they are only human! Sorry but you do sound a little like one of THOSE parents.

I dont know what your son did but to involve hoy it must have been quite serious. If I were you I would be concentrating on explaining to ds that in the workplace you have to conform and often unfair things happen 'against his rights.' For example my dh sometimes goes without a break all day in his retail job. Ds will need to pick his battles in life. Its shit but its how it is.

I also agree that your ds should not have been the only one punished if others also broke this rule. That's worth a complaint

So they were speaking about you, and they've never met you but have a negative opinion?
If the boys are telling the truth, I'd be concerned as to why the gossip was that I wasn't supportive, and where my reputation for being difficult came from.

Depends if her DS was the only one seen,or caught, and if the others had a good reason for not having done the work. Which leads into confidentiality.
You can't usually give a detention without reason.

We don't know what OP's ds did, except it wouldn't have been illegal outside school. We also don't know if others were doing it on the occasion ds was caught. Just that OP knows others have done it at other times.

If it's something minor - gum, earring, wrong shoes - then it's entirely possible some boys have got away with it. Teachers don't have eyes in the back of their heads and do sometimes actually have to do some teaching.

Neither OP nor her ds is disputing that he broke the rule. Just that 'it's a silly rule/it's against his rights to stop him doing it/whatsisname did it and he didn't get a detention. Pupils often do this. It's very irritating because it wastes time and you know they're hoping if they make a fuss you'll think twice about picking them up on it next time.

But when a parent joins in, with the same arguments?, it's more than irritating because it's undermining the school's authority and giving the pupil permission to argue with the teacher knowing that his parent will back him up.

OP - I think you'd be helping your ds more if you had a conversation with him about his 'non-conformism' than supporting him in it.

Goblin The two teachers had had conversations on the phone with OP when she asked for 'clarification' about her ds's detention.

The boys who overheard were in an entirely different detention for not having done their homework.

My ds1 was given a detention for having his shirt untucked in the first term of school.
Was he the only one? No.
Did he feel it was unfair? Yes.
Did he do the detention without complaining? Yes.
Its a detention, if they had excluded him from lessons then fair enough, I probably would have said something. Sometimes things happen that are unfair, you cant fight everything. Pick your battles.
I will add that ds1 is now y9. I expect him to behave in a way that the school accepts, any consequences he needs to deal with. Should his bad decisions impact on me-ie being called into school, he then has to add another consequence into the mix.
He plays the game well.

Oh. Forgot to add YABU

It wasn't the old clip-on versus real tie stunt again, was it?

I've never been one of those parents.

I guess that is why it is so surprising that they have me marked.

Many things that pupils do in his school go unchallenged, smoking for example ...mainly because the teacher's have decided that it is not worth pulling these kids up as they are 'a lost cause'

DS was asked/requested not to do something in his own time. On his own facebook page. It did not involve another pupil, nor was it unkind.

It was just that his tutor would like it better if he didn't.

We live in a very small community, somehow/someone with a mutual friend with my son grassed on him to the school.

This is not his original 'crime' but what followed after-this incident is what I have mostly trying to gain clarification on.

I have supported the school, and will continue to do so.

Again, I must mention...the original bad behaviour was not illegal.It broke a school rule however.