Am I unreasonable to be thinking of taking this further? (Teacher problem)

[Feminine]

My eldest son (15) has been in some trouble at school recently. Nothing that serious -something that would not be considered a problem outside of it, (I don't want to give too many details) but something that the school is not happy about.

I have spoken to a couple of the teachers about this, as they have called me to inform.

I've always been polite, and respectful. As, have they, or so I thought at the time.

Anyway...last week a couple of my son's friends were in detention. Talking right by them ( probably around a corner) they were heard to say: (about DS)

" Well *** gets his attitude from his Mother" "yeah, with a Mother like that ..." "yeah what can you expect..."

Then they noticed his friends...

The Teacher told him: " You didn't hear any of that right?"

Of course his friends have told him. I've no reason to doubt them.

I don't want to get his friends in to trouble, however I can't let this rest. I think it is beyond unprofessional.

Should I let it rest, or talk to someone at school higher up?

Why do you have no reason to doubt the truth of this story? If your son has already been in trouble and he and his friends are particularly annoyed with the teachers involved, the whole incident could be made up as a form of revenge on the school. It really is their word vs the word of the teachers and if your son is already in trouble at school, it seems like an attempt to deflect attention from his poor behaviour. As a teacher, I am always amazed when parents prefer to attack the school instead of support them and be horrified when their child is poorly behaved.

One incident.

Two teacher's.

A year head, and tutor.

It was not unusual as we were talking about other things, work experience etc... It happened over the space of a week.

LordP, I think the balance is about equal between parents and teachers, they all complain and judge each other.
As long as it doesn't impact on how the child is treated, it seems normal to me. I've often been more sympathetic and patient with a child when I've realised what a PITA their parent is. On the grounds of 'Poor little sod, fancy being related to that'

It is a very strict school.

This 'crime' is not considered one in another school.

The kids in detention were there for not finishing H/work.

Nothing dreadful.

Even if the friends are telling the literal truth and have total recall of every syllable spoken, there is no way you can prove this. The teachers will defend themselves, you will be drawn into more arguments which will cause more acrimony. Much better to let it go.

And with a bit of luck, by the end of the year those teachers will be saying to each other "well you know, about Feminineds' mum, what we were saying before, we were wrong weren't we?"

nina I fully supported the school.

that is why I'm wondering.

MN will just have to take my word for it that I'm not/and have never been a pain.

The sympathetic Teacher (who only just met DS) told me he was a very respectful person.

I only happened to be talking with her as she is the Teacher to speak to if they are off sick, and...is instrumental in helping with work placements.

goblin yes, why not use the staffroom.

Mind you, I'm still getting over the shock that Teacher's say mean things about the kids at all.

Don't know why? just thought they didn't.

Ultimately the kids aren't going to be happy about being in a detention and won't be the biggest fans of their teachers who put them there. They can be very instrumental with the truth when they want to be. If you have been calm and respectful in all your dealings with the school and feel that they have also been calm and respectful, I just don't see where this 'conversation' would have come from, what would the teachers have to complain about?

nina I suspect that although I was supportive, I asked for some clarification on the rule he broke. I know they were not happy about that.

This is the first time DS has had a problem like this.

I appreciate it must be difficult to form an opinion, when I am unable to post what he got up to.

They were not put there by those teacher's. those teacher's just happened to be supervising detention.

You think that a teacher saying that a 15 year old has a poor attitude is being mean to them?
One of the things I have found about many of my colleagues over the years is that they may see a probloem and articulate it, but they are the same people wondering why, what the root cause is and how to fix it.

I believe they guess my son's attitude comes from me.

Part of his wrong behaviour (in school) has something to do with his rights/law.

He has become very passionate about human rights.

So much so,that the supportive teacher suggested he go on marches!

goblin no actually, I was thinking about somethingI heard in my other children's primary school.

Thank you for all your opinions btw.

If you aren't passionate at 15, I'd be worried, but with rights come responsibilities, including doing a set detention without argument for example.
I wonder what he'd done to trigger that response in the teachers running the detention? What did they notice?

I agree they should have used the staff room!
Teachers are normal human beings they like a bitch too

goblin

DS is a non-conformist.

That sounds worrying in a school setting (I know) however, on talking to his( other) subject teachers they have no problem with his work/attitude.

It is this one 'thing' that has landed him in sticky water.

like me, he hates injustice. I imagine he wanted answers from the Teacher's as to why what he did was considered a broken rule.

I think the point I was trying to make was that these students may dislike the teachers who were supposedly talking for reasons of their own and want to get the school in trouble. They probably know through your son that you have been in conversations with the school and you aren't completely happy with them. Unless one of those teachers was someone you specifically dealt with over your son's incident, it just seems so odd that they would say this. It could be true but hard to say either way who is telling the truth.

nina it was both the Teacher's I had just dealt with.

Both the year head, and his tutor.

I do hear that it would be hard to prove either way.

I asked here, for some frank answers. I'm grateful for different perspectives.

I've been stewing all week, and need to let it rest or take the next step.

Thank you.

So two teachers have had to contact you about this? The same incident/broken rule? It might not be that serious (at least to you) but he has obviously been a pain in the arse. Were these teachers a man and a woman? If same sex, how do you know which of them said it? What would you want the outcome to be? Do you think that kicking up a stink would make the situation between you/teachers/your son any better?
Fair or not, they have an impression of you which is only going to be reinforced if you complain. Is this going to be beneficial, do you think? Having said all of that of course you must complain if that is what you want to do.

school should not be suggesting he goes on marches - teachers are not allowed to promote political activities. we can explain how to express yourself politically but not suggest you do it. perhaps the teacher who did this is new to the school or inexperienced generally?

now, your son, his friends and you.

he is in trouble in school. he has broken a rule and been punished. that's how it goes. tell him not to break any more rules.

he's fifteen. in small matters like this, he should be fighting his own battles ie not fighting in this case, without his mummy joining in.

his friends are wind-up merchants. even if they heard what they heard, they shouldn't have told. ignore them. its kid's stuff. did the teachers say 'your mum'? its about that level, isn't it?

teachers are human and will talk. if they teach a mouthy gobshite with an intrusive mummy , the word will spread like wildfire, so that everyone knows to make written records of interactions with him, in case the pair of you try anything on. and that's how it is. you make your son a pain in the bum, they try to protect themselves and each other.

and you are going to take this further? how? are you comfortable said 'x and y told my son that mrs a and mr b said this about me!' if indeed they said it, they said it to each other, not to the whole school in assembly and not even to a whole class. if you're confident that you are right, go ahead and complain. the matter will be addressed. the teachers might be spoken to. it will then go on your son's file, or be linked with it, and any further issues you raise will be seen in the light of this trivial matter which you are making an unreasonable fuss about. and staff will be even more cautious of your son. who would want him in an extra-curricular activity after that? who would want to give up their own time to help him, if he needs it, as he approaches gcses?

you aren't being fair to teachers, but you'll expect them to be endlessly forgiving to your son.

I don't think you can complain ( it will be their word again two kids) but I would drop it into the conversation when you next talk to them e. g "I know he is passionate about x he must get his attitude from me" said with a raised eyebrow.

If it is true, I do think it is bad. They shouldn't have this conversation where students can hear. That is unprofessional. I just think it's so hard to prove. Ultimately the focus should just be on resolving whatever your son has done and moving onto something more positive through better behaviour from him. Going above the head of year to someone like an assistant principal would be making it a very serious issue over something that is hard to prove.

are you comfortable said probably should have read 'are you comfortable to complain that x and y'

Ah, if it is all about his rights I wouldn't have a problem with that, as long as he recognises the rights of others, including his teachers. Unlikely. If neither you nor he like the rules perhaps you could find him another school which has rules which suit you both better?

Too far, Feminine. Now you have spoken to another 'sympathetic' teacher about the issue you have put yourself a little bit beyond reasonable. You have now become one of 'those' parents. Going behind a teacher's back, circumventing the HoY's authority has reduced your viewpoint to gossip, now.

Even if you are right and the 'crime' would pass unnoticed in another school, you son is not in another school. You still insist that the boys are being wholly truthful, that could come back and bite you!

DS may be a nonconformist but that does not prevent him from being respectful, polite etc. If he was argumentative because he perceived an injustice had been done then that would not have been respectful to his peers. Students who insist on showing that they are right usually disrupt a class to do so. It is one thing I dislike intensely. Not that a student may disagree with me, but that they think that they can say so for as long as they please and will not discuss it after class. Is that what your boy did?

"It is my human right" is a phrase that strikes fear into any teacher's heart. As the young person uttering the phrase has often imputed a wrongness from a societal requirement to do as they are told in a reasonable situation.

But do go and see the right person, that would be the HT now you have circumvented the HoY.

Good luck with it.