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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not get the problem with skin whitening?

259 replies

CogitoErgoSometimes · 22/03/2014 10:59

Just seen a video with a singer Dencia 'defending' her decision to lighten her skin and the interviewer suggesting that it means she's uncomfortable being a black woman. Provided the product is safe to use, I don't see why someone lightening dark skin is any different ethically to a pale person using fake tan, or someone putting a dye on grey hair.

OP posts:
Fusedog · 24/03/2014 12:06

Well said

TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy · 24/03/2014 12:08

EveesMummy - I'm 28. My father's family is part of a long global history of light skinned people marrying each other to pass and to help their children pass or at least have a light skinned advantage. And while you may like bleach, I was 4 when it was first put on me (and I went from almost black brown to platinum blonde) and the fact people are putting still on children to attain a lighter image both risks the health of the child and shows how damaging the ideal is to society.

I don't think it has anything to do with what our parents taught us - it's the the perspective in education, in media, in politics, in social research,
in all systems gives a White Western perspective as universal and there is a lot of resistance in all of those to changing it even when it's been shown over and over how untrue that is.

I mean, we have over 40 years of research showing that the colourblind idea is both untrue (children do see it and get messages about it from society and are affected by it from infancy) and contributes to the continuation of racism (if you can't see or discuss it directly, then how can it be challenged and if you remove racism then you result in blaming people for the results of the system) and yet this thread is full of that ideology. There is a big social barrier to dealing with it - and part of that people want to think of themselves as good and earned what they have and to acknowledge that society is designed currently to give some unearned benefits gives a lot of those that benefit distress.

An individual may not think it, but White people are more likely to be hired. More likely to get promoted, get a raise, more likely to be well evaluated by the public. Studies have shown that a White man with a criminal record is more employable than a Black man without one. White women make more than any other group of women and most groups of men. Dismissing that because we don't think it so it doesn't happen ignores that racism is an institutional power structure that surrounds us our entire lives to both normalize and excuse it away. One can pretend that it doesn't affect us or anything important but when the images, the stories, the "truths" are around us all the time it is part of our reality. And part of that message is that being and looking Whiter will mean more success, more safety, more prestige - and both confirmation bias of the images around us and statistics feed into that.

We can't compare skin bleaching and tanning. Tanning is now White classism - you can afford a holiday/time out in a mainly indoor economy - and it is advertised with ableistic 'healthy glow' which just isn't attached to other groups. No one tells even the lightest of my mestizo kin that they need a tan to look better. Even when I was severely anemic and quite pale for me, no one said I would look better with a tan and most medical professionals ignored it (because skin issues on darker skin is rarely taught). The pressure to tan has none of the moral, intellectual, financial, or safety pushes that skin bleaching has. We aren't told that you will look smarter, kinder, purer, get a job, or that you will be safer with a tan, these are all these that are attached to skin bleaching.

Fusedog · 24/03/2014 12:14

I have a mixed raced child and I already get oh she's very dark fora mixed raced child lets hope she dosent get any darker

ViviPru · 24/03/2014 12:31

"lets hope she dosent get any darker" Really?! This is abhorrent. Perhaps I'm naïve but it's sickening to me that anyone would be subjected to this kind of comment. Who is saying this? Relatives? Friends? Passers by? The lady in the post office?? Have you found there a to be a tendency for people of a particular ethnicity to express this view?

Tinkywoo · 24/03/2014 12:33

Trampette I was always overlooked for my fair skinned friends- on the street, at clubs etc. One friend was very attractive, the others really were no better looking than me. One friend played on this and used to jibe that I received far less attention than her Hmm. I did not have the confidence to tell her to take a jump. Needless to say she is no longer around.

I have heard many a mixed race/fair skin woman state that they can 'take somebody's man'. They believe they have the pick of the bunch as they are more sought after than dark women.

I cannot flirt to save my life. I had to be sure that a guy liked me before showing interest.

Trampette · 24/03/2014 12:47

vivipru black people say those kinds of things to each other. Yes. That says a lot about why this thread was started, most white people would have no idea that this kind of thing occurs. I have a child with a black man and one with a mixed race man. A mixed up race woman told me when i was pregnant with the mixed race mans child ' well this one will be much better looking than your other child' by better looking, she meant lighter. My eldest who has Lupita Nyong'o dark skin is stunning and my younger child who has the complexion of Beyonce is stunning too!

Tinkywoo · 24/03/2014 12:48

Fusedog I over heard a black man assuring his friend that his mixed race daughter really was not going to get much darker in complexion. It was as if the thought of it scared him. Shock

I truly feel that a lot of British born black men mostly of West Indian descent dislike who they are and where they are coming from. They have bought into the mentality that 'white is best'. I believe some perceive being with a white woman as a status symbol - "Look guys I have finally made it!"

They know little about black history and probably are not at all interested in being educated about it.

In my experience, white men who date/marry outside of their race do not degrade white women as a result - it is merely their preference. Black men on the other hand will happily slate black women to justify their choice - not pretty enough, coarse hair, ghetto fabulous, no ambition, the list goes on.

nicename · 24/03/2014 12:56

I think a very dark skin is extremely beautiful. When I was little I would just gawp at the ebony black street vendors I would see on holiday.

I have very peely wally white skin and it is blotchy, veiny, goose pimply and my extremities and frequently blue. My skin will wrinkle far faster than a person with dark skin and I often get horrible dry patches. Great!

Tinkywoo · 24/03/2014 12:57

As I said in an earlier post, black women have put up with a lot.

Asserting yourself at work is perceived as aggressive. Your white female peers are 'allowed' to be fiery and feisty.

We are often seen as sex symbols by men of other races. Good enough to sleep with but not quite marrying material. For this reason I never dated outside of my race - was not willing to be anyone's play thing.

Often mistreated, taken for granted and looked down on by black men. My dh is the first black man who loved me for me. The others were too busy ogling J Lo and Halle Berry which left me feeling crap as I knew I was not their ideal. There were always browner, more beautiful women out there even if well out of their reach.

Trampette · 24/03/2014 12:58

Tinkywoo snap.

Trampette · 24/03/2014 12:59

*tinkywoo that was to your post about being overlooked.

nicename · 24/03/2014 13:01

I have noticed that women in music/acting industries (like Beyoncé) seem to become 'whiter' as they become more famous. Am I imagining it? Not just the skin colour but feature wise too.

TwittyMcTwitterson · 24/03/2014 13:07

The why Americans are weird link is absolutely amazing! I only have half an hours dinner so can't read it all and do all my other things so I will read the rest later.

I remember someone posting on here (or somewhere) about how her black DP was always calling black women and basically saying exactly what he had told her to everyone. She genuinely believed it was all true and that it was ok for her to say that!

re the name thing from the first link, I do think unusual/names clearly from a certain class etc etc do affect you! my name is extremely French. I get people talking to me at first as if I might not understand them. My sweet DD has an unusual spelling because her dad got a tattoo while I was still in hospital and thought the name we decided on was spelt EE at the end, not IE. Yes, he is an absolute ball sack but it was too late once he had it all the way down his sodding forearm Some people call her Eve because they think the extra e is there for show. I do wonder how this will affect her.

Thank you for showing me all of this! I didn't realise it was as bad as this and I feel for you and your daughters and the stupidity that you see.

TwittyMcTwitterson · 24/03/2014 13:20

Nice name, I received an email from YouTube today about female leaders and Beyoncé was the main pic. I wish I knew how to put pics up on here because she has bleached hair (whiter than I can get mine) and basically white skin. Her eyes even look blueish.

As blue as our extremities Wink

TwittyMcTwitterson · 24/03/2014 14:12

I mean my whole names French not just fore/surname.

TwittyMcTwitterson · 24/03/2014 14:33

So I just google Vybz Kartel and seems hes been found guilty of murder today!

I also saw crazy pictures of him and sammy sosa before and after skin bleaching! I am going to look into this in more detail tonight. I feel I need to educate myself

TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy · 24/03/2014 14:40

nicename: Yes, but a lot of it is photoshop.

nicename · 24/03/2014 15:10

Funnily the photoshopping seems to merge all races into a coppery shop dummy look. All elongated with long noses and cheekbones. Most odd.

Fusedog · 24/03/2014 15:25

poster ViviPru sadly black people and well meaning white people the whole thing is very sad.

Don't get me started on passing

Or hair straightening

MistressDeeCee · 24/03/2014 16:14

This whole thing is very sad.

These bleachers get way too much publicity, and lead others to believe all black women want to be white - no, we don't. Despite the nonsense we have to put up with, vast numbers of us are ok with who we are. & despite the twisted western publicity machine with its spurious stereotyping - plenty of us do have partners. Of our own race, too. & are perfectly happy.

Black women have all but been erased from Hollywood - even Eva Longoria has commented on the fact that black male actors are given a Latina love interest. Lupita is ok - she's flavour of the month and she played a slave. Its 'trendy' to laud her. Lets see how long it lasts..and lets face it there have been numerous brilliant black actresses before her. I like what I see and hear of her. But, its almost as if she's an exotic new toy

Tinkywoo yes indeed..the old stereotype..should you dare speak up for yourself at work, you're aggressive. I recall a few years ago a manager tried that term on me - I said the 'a' word to him at the same moment he said it; I know the lines so well (yawn). That shut him up.

As for black men who date outside their race and then justify by dissing women of their own race - theyre deluded and we are well rid. He is a walking bag of confusion and were he truly in love with his chosen one, he simply wouldn't be concerned with black women.

When all said and done I guess there are silly people in all races. Unfortunately with black people, those of us who act like lost souls are highlighted more; play up the negative so as to perpetuate stereotypes that we all think/act like this or that

Minstrel mentality is rife and its a shame its portrayed as if the majority of us are into it. Still, having faith in yourself and being strongminded goes a long way in combating that.

My mother is from Martinique and my father is from Brazil. So I have a French-Brazilian name. I am a darkskinned black woman. If on occasion my heritage comes up you can hear a pin drop & I know very well people are thinking 'how come she's dark?' Its as if they ignore the Martinique side (although my mother isn't darkskinned) & only focus on the Brazilian side (my father IS darkskinned). Ive actually had someone say 'excuse me I didnt think Brazilians looked...like you'. Now, possibly the most famous person in Brazil is Pele; still, after all these years. He isn't exactly white/oliveskinned is he?!!! Smile

ViviPru · 24/03/2014 16:26

Thank you for your insightful, enlightening post, DeeCee

Tinkywoo · 24/03/2014 17:03

Very well put Mistress

NewtRipley · 24/03/2014 20:06

This thread had been really interesting and enlightening.

NewtRipley · 24/03/2014 20:07

has been

idontgivearatsass · 24/03/2014 22:16

Thanks for all the positive and elevating stories from our dark skinned black women on this thread. I am proud to say that you have shared my exact sentiments.

I just wanted to share a personal story about natural hair. I attended my interview in the City with natural hair in 2 strand twists ie not extensions but shoulder length natural hair in tiny twists and I was complimented by the white receptionists for my hairstyle. Having worn my hair natural all my life, it had never crossed my mind to make any changes to my hair ahead of the biggest interview of my life. I credit my parents for that unshakeable commitment to natural hair!! So I just took the compliments with a wide smile because of course I had pretty hair! And I thought nothing else of it.

I then proceeded to dreadlock my hair before my start date and have worn my hair in dreadlocks throughout my time in the city up to today. I have managed to be promoted on schedule each and every time I was due a promotion with very decent bonuses as well.

Two years ago I met a girlfriend for lunch who was amazed that I wore my now very long dreadlocks in plain view at work which is a very client facing role by the way. She then shared with me that under her wig, her hair was in dreadlocks and she was very worried that her city job would be under threat if she exposed them.

I cannot tell which one of us was more shocked that day - whether her amazement that I had not only landed a prestigious job with natural hair but was surviving very well thank you very much or my dismay that she felt that a beautiful and intelligent black woman could not wear her hair in an attractive and clean natural hairstyle in a professional job.

Suffice it to say that by the end of the lunch, she felt brave enough to try removing her wig and from that day until today, she has never worn that wig again and she is continuing to excel at work!

So the morale of the story is consistent with that of DeeCee's points - to be true to ourselves and have confidence in our beauty. The rest of the world will follow suit. There are Lupitas everywhere if we only paid attention - not only on the big screen but in a professional offices and at the school gate and virtually every where that there are dark skinned black women. And we are proud of it.. We will not change a thing about ourselves. Ta da!