To not get the problem with skin whitening?

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Just seen a video with a singer Dencia 'defending' her decision to lighten her skin and the interviewer suggesting that it means she's uncomfortable being a black woman. Provided the product is safe to use, I don't see why someone lightening dark skin is any different ethically to a pale person using fake tan, or someone putting a dye on grey hair.

[LittleTurtle]

Black women sometimes have an uneven skin tone - where some parts are darker than others. The skin lightners were there to permanently address that problem. So dab a bit on the darker parts to make you have one unique colour all over (this applies to face and body, knuckles, etc.). It is not because black women are trying to be white. Someone may decide that they would like to have a nice golden all round colour without using a concealer that will rub off etc. Think Janet Jackson in the Again video. To me they are not trying to be white, maybe trying to look like a sunkissed Island babe, more like.

Sure, some will misuse the product and overuse the thing all over. But that is the exception rather than the norm.

Black women also like changing their hair in general, mostly for the fun and diversity it brings. No more than any white woman who may decide that they actually look better with blonde and stick by it. Or put in extensions like Pamela Anderson, cause lots of hair suite them.

No political or self hate agendas here. I think it's a insult to black women to assume otherwise to be honest.

If a white girl, pumps poison botox to her lips, bums etc. then goes and risk skin cancer in the sunbed or direct sun all day, then puts some hair extensions. No one assumes she wants to be Naomi Campbell.

[TwittyMcTwitterson]

I was going to ask the same.

Property, this really is a must read

[ChocolateSnowflakes]

I don't know why my iPad changed my comma to an exclamation mark there...

[ChocolateSnowflakes]

property not to be rude! but have you read the thread at all? And you still don't see why OP is BU? It's not about crazy modification and anything going, it's about the negative connotations - historical and current, that having dark skin holds.

[propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS]

Yanbu. In these days of crazy cosmetic body modification anything goes.

[ChocolateSnowflakes]

Gimmestrength you don't need to apologise, but it's a shame that society has made you feel as if you need to 'blend in'

[MistressDeeCee]

how many times did I type 'instance'>! Sorry...!

[MistressDeeCee]

Gimmestrength30 I know exactly what you mean. Being black is just too 'political' sometimes. & thats mainly caused by other people's stereotyping and generalising.

For instance - you can't even just simply get on with life as a mother, for instance..you have to warn your child about what they'll face out there because you just know, if you don't make them aware they're viewed as different often in a negative way as a black child, then someone else will surely let them know, and it won't necessarily be in a good way either. Even if you don't want to, you have to drop that knowledge right into their childhood to try to minimise their shock when the time comes. People who say life/love doesn't see colour are doing so from a position of privilege.

There are so many instances it would be tiring to go into them all.

[TwittyMcTwitterson]

Just to reiterate, I'm by no means saying ginger people face any similar persecution for their hair colour as black people for skin colour.

It is simply something 'looked down on' for no reason. But is a general opinion of white people that ginger is less appealing than any other colour.

[Gimmestrength30]

I have been reading this thread with interest.

fusedog, I agree with what you have said. I am very dark brown and my mixed race son has green eyes. It was never an issue for me or his father...ffs, he can see out of them, that's all that matters, surely? But then I have people who have asked me whether I can trace my family history back as it's unusual for a child to have such light eyes. Is it? Who cares?

I would never bleach my skin. Ever. But I can see why women would. As a black woman, sometimes, I want to be like a blank canvas, where judgements can't be made on my skin tone. Sometimes, I just want to blend in. Does that make sense?

Sometimes, I want to be treated the same; not better or worse, but the same. Sometimes, I don't want to have to be the spokesperson for the entire black race. Sometimes, I just want to be me. And sometimes, I don't want to have to feel responsible for a crime that someone of the same colour as me has committed (Those guys that killed that soldier)...my whole race was put on trial for something that was fuck all to do with anyone but the assholes who did it, or at least, that is how it felt to me and other black people I know.

Sorry for waffling and I have not meant to offend anyone.

[TwittyMcTwitterson]

uk.images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=Az_6xdn8eDFThSgAZQlNBQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTIzN242bW9uBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZAM3NDJjNTkwNzAyZWVmODFjMTY4NTM4YTNhYmIyODBiZQRncG9zAzE0BGl0A2Jpbmc-?back=uk.images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image&va=ugly+ginger&fr=iphone&tab=organic&ri=14&w=200&h=287&imgurl=www.the-top-list.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/ugly_ginger_people-1.bmp&rurl=www.the-top-list.com/top-10-pictures-of-ugly-gingers/&size=168.2KB&name=ugly_ginger_people+(1)&p=ugly+ginger&oid=742c590702eef81c168538a3abb280be&fr2=&fr=iphone&tt=ugly_ginger_people+(1)&b=0&ni=58&no=14&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=11s2l08u9&sigb=13a9afb2u&sigi=128apb30t&sigt=114p7039t&sign=114p7039t&.crumb=BeTJvfr7ncL&fr=iphone

Potentially (if I've done it correctly) that's an image of a stereotypical ugly ginger person.

Amy Adams, Jessica chastain are examples of 'good ginger' as it were...

[TwittyMcTwitterson]

I never even thought of it before. It's just natural for me to not want my daughter to have bright orange hair. That's what I've been bought up with. I love auburn and red but not bright ginger and pale pale skin.

[TwittyMcTwitterson]

So does my gran. She says how DDs hair (dark blonde) looks like it may go ginger. I get ever so defensive. The same when she says DDs dad is ginger. They have the exact same hair colour and as someone who has spent the last 12 years bleaching her hair to shit, I hope it stays that colour.

I feel terrible saying that!

[Tinkywoo]

I think ginger hair is gorgeous. Especially when thick.

[TwittyMcTwitterson]

I simply don't see why we do this! It's horrible!

[TwittyMcTwitterson]

Thank you tinky!

I did like the quite 'pale, male and stale' from an article linked on here. I believe it was fusedog.

I don't think anyone would disagree that white women have it easier. I simply didn't realise just how much harder it was for black women.

Just thinking tho, white people are horrible to ginger people. They are seen as 'ugly'. I remember hoping DD wouldn't be ginger. It's no where near the same but has the basis of natural not being right. Such a shame.

[Tinkywoo]

Evesmummy I have also heard the stereotype of white women being weak, grateful, willing to spend money on their men etc. I know better than to group women merely on their race.
iI am glad you do not agree with the stereotype of black women, so many do. I have worked in organisations where management/colleagues expected me to be agressive. One manager even went as far as pushing my buttons (in very subtle ways of course) in the hope that I would explode. I did not fall for the bait. I acted professional at all times and she hated it!

Black women have endured far more than white women and black men. White men are very rarely
have never been discriminated against as they are the 'right' sex and the 'right' colour. They pull all the strings.

[Grandemama]

Tinky Southamerican men do that too. They try to get 'the whitest' woman possible (usually eastern european).
I have a friend from Bolivia who would not date any other than 'blonde, white, blue eyes', not because of 'personal taste' but to show off, like you said 'he made it' to people 'back home'.

I am not black, but I am not white (sort of light brown I guess, kind of what most Chinese people look like skin tone wise), I have got lots of 'good' comments from people from my own ethnicity who are darker than me because I am 'white' for them, but in the UK I get 'pretty for her type', same I was told by people who are 'whiter' than me including my own family

I have also met women from the same background as me telling me they were disappointed their children only have 'brown hair' (the ones married to white men) because they wanted the children to have blonde hair 'yellow like a baby chicken' (I just smiled, because what else can you do?)

[TwittyMcTwitterson]

What I mean, I'm hoping I explain it well, we are all told stereotypes of other people. People from one culture, colour or place will be told one thing and another will be told something separate.

This is the one I have always heard. I'm not saying the other doesn't exist but this is one of many.

[TwittyMcTwitterson]

No no no, not at all did I mean to come across that way! I've read that stereotype in published books, articles and heard it said.

[TillyTellTale]

Eveesmummy I disagree with the stereotype that a black woman is 'bossy' as oppose to feisty!
Well, there's a saying, "one swallow doesn't make a summer".

Your post looks very much like you're denying black women's experiences of racism there, because you haven't noticed it. Did you mean it to come across that way? I don't disbelieve you that you've met people who made derogatory comments about your skin and appearance, because there are derogatory arseholes everywhere. But just because you were in one room somewhere, having an arse tell you white women were submissive, doesn't mean that somewhere else at the same time, a black woman wasn't being called aggressive for the crime of having an opinion while being black.

Me, I have never been told that I'm submissive because I'm white, or heard of anyone else being told it, but black friends and acquaintances have told me of being called 'loud, 'aggressive' etc. So I think black women almost certainly have it on a worse scale than white women do.

[TwittyMcTwitterson]

Pressed send too soon.

I also think light skin, white skin whatever, is beautiful. Apart my own skin. It looks fine on other people who are just that little bit darker, but not my own. I also like dark hair, light hair. Etc.

I would never look at any woman with a different colour hair than is natural and assume she was trying to be x, y or z. I'd assume she just preferred it that way.

I can't express how sad I find this all. I'd be utterly distressed and frustrated if my daughter was told that who she is, isn't good enough or does not fit in with societal ideals that quite frankly, are impossible to maintain permanently.

I really am glad I've read all this. It truly is an eye opener



Is this touching on a deeper issue about women and self esteem?

[TwittyMcTwitterson]

I disagree with the stereotype that a black woman is 'bossy' as oppose to feisty!

I have always been told of the stereotype that white women are 'weak. submissive and typically nothing more than housewives' whereas black women are 'strong, feisty amazonian type women, know how to get what is wanted from their men' all of this in a derogatory way to white women and positive for black women.

Just what I've always come across!

I also agree that tanning is not for a 'holiday look' but because we are told by beauty companies that pale is bad and a healthy glow is fantastic!

It would appear that whatever you look like, society tells you that you need to change it!

I personally think dark skin, natural hair is all beautiful!

[EmpressOfJurisfiction]

DW and I booked into a salon in Birmingham to have our hair done for our wedding (went in personally together to book so they saw us both beforehand). We arrived on our wedding morning and the stylist assigned to DW refused to do her hair because it was black and natural. I'd suspect homophobia but the woman was quite happy to do my hair instead. Fortunately the senior stylist stepped in but FFS...

[justanuthermanicmumsday]

Noodle that's your daughters hair. Would any teacher tell a Caucasian or asian girl with curly hair it was not acceptable highly unlikely. I hope you made it clear to school it was unacceptable behaviour.

it's not always a colour issue sometimes background. I remember vividly my best friend in primary was an Irish girl I remember her for her wild mass of gorgeous brown curls. It was just shoulder length occasionally hitting her face but I wouldn't say it was messy. The teacher had it in for this girl. I remember her humiliating this girl apparently she had dirty nails, it was plasticine? She hit her with ruler on her knuckles.

another time she said if I catch you again with that hair out I will cut it off. She didn't sound sarcastic when she said it. She often mentioned her hair. Thinking about it now she definitively had it in for her because she was irish nothing else. I was guilty by association so she used to pick on me too.


I don't agree white women tan for a holiday look ,why do some women have a annual tan, if holidays are seasonal, or taken at intervals? The truth is I hear many of them moaning they look too pasty white, not pretty. Again it's the crappy beauty industry, music industry basically media to blame for this poor body image. bronzing powder that's relatively new same idea. apparently bronzing powders for browns skins too, yeah like I need bronzing?, I don't fall for that nonsense at all!

I remember watching chat show I won't name years ago now, American, where parents were using chemicals to relax their nursery school kids hair to look pretty. These kids even thought they looked ugly with their natural hair. It was sad to see the kids moaning or crying because the relaxer stung, but still they persisted relaxing their hair to apparently look "pretty" . If the brainwashing about so called perceived beauty starts this young those girls don't have a chance to change when older, they will find it too hard to make the transition.

Ironically the same thing happens amongst Asians. apparently we should all have straight sleek shiny hair. If a baby is born with curly hair it is bemoaned oh she has "bushy" hair, meaning it's ugly. Nevermind she has gorgeous curls no it's bushy and nasty. I remember an asian girl at my secondary school I was horrified to learn some students from the same background as me had nicknamed her the Afro bangla. Because she was bangladeshi but had incredibly big hair. she had small ringlets like Whitney looked like in the. 80s which I think was pretty and very cool.

I've gone on a bit but I believe these hair issues are down to same issue they have a white complex, think they should look a certain way to be deemed beautiful.