To not get the problem with skin whitening?

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Just seen a video with a singer Dencia 'defending' her decision to lighten her skin and the interviewer suggesting that it means she's uncomfortable being a black woman. Provided the product is safe to use, I don't see why someone lightening dark skin is any different ethically to a pale person using fake tan, or someone putting a dye on grey hair.

Fantastic post idont

idontgivearatsass so very well said - and done

MistressDeeCee Black women have all but been erased from Hollywood - even Eva Longoria has commented on the fact that black male actors are given a Latina love interest.

It's so blatant, even I've noticed it!

I got introduced to the unfair treatment regards hair a few months back, when my (male) friend told me tales of recently visiting a new hairdresser/barbers and being told they couldn't cut his hair, in front of all the customers.

He doesn't even have long hair. He has shortish hair, that he gets trimmed all over with a shaver every so often! Sometimes with shapes in it. I have (white male) friends whose chosen hairstyles must be far more difficult to do. They'd never be turned away from a barbers though.

I think it stems from colonisation by white people and the spreading of the idea that they were the epitome of the civilised educated beautiful people whilst all "other people" should be aiming to be like.

So in India you get girls using bleaches to be light like the bollywood actresses, who have 6 inches of plaster to make them appear lighter.
blue and green contact lenses to lighten up the eyes. Ashblonde or very light brow. Hair dyes again for the Caucasian look. girls refused for marriage due to not being light enough. Or ostracised my mil all her life for being too dark.

Dark= uneducated, ugly, evil all negative connotations
Light=beautiful, good, angelic, virgin all positive

African Americans relaxing their hair, getting weaves with real straight hair to look more "civilised" and less wild looking at work. Skin lightening is big with them aswell, look at controversy with a well known pop star who thinks she's got a halo .

Same thing happens amongst Arabs even though many of them are super light skinned, and chinese and Korean, which I don't understand they're light already?

I'm asian I would say I'm light skinned but not super light, not that it helps anyone. But my point is I was always told I was too dark by a parent. I never thght of colour until this parent put it into my head. she used to say it in front of the neighbours. The neighbours were astounded they'd be like there there she's so light how can you say she's dark. Even though they were defending me I'd be angry with them for implying I was fortunate for not being dark skinned?

I married a guy who is darker than me. one of my daughters has darker skin than me, when she was born a family member did not want to hold her. I could see it in her face, thankfully she wasn't my mum. but it hurts now still after seven years thinking about it. when they discussed her as people do with. Newborn they'd say no she looks nothing like her mum all her dad. Implying she is dark, not beautiful? My husband has a reddish tone to his skin. My skin is brown with more pinkish and yellowish tones.

Anyways rant over skin whitening does matter it's a multi million dollar industry if it didn't matter so much money wouldn't be spent producing garbage that will lead to cancer and other harmful diseases.

Haven't read the whole thread yet but drawing on a personal example, my DD went to school once this year without straightening her hair and was told that it was 'unacceptable' and didn't meet their standards of smart appearance, by her form tutor.

The pressure to conform to white standards of beauty are enormous. I once went to school with my hair in braids, with a few beads, and although I explained it was cultural, was suspended until I had taken them out. If they could have forced me to 'whiten' my skin, they probably would have.

TillyTellTale: Where I live is nearly impossible to get my hair cut. Traipsing around, or telephoning endlessly to try to make an appointment is so degrading and demoralising :( The guy I found to cut my hair in a salon about 30mins away has left now so... Well, I haven't had my hair cut since the first week in November 2011, when I felt I really had to for my graduation photos. Realistically, I should just bite the bullet and go up to Birmingham and get it over and done with.

Justanuther How awful that this hatred for dark skin has been instilled in so many Asians. They were taught that light/white id better from a young age.

What black women with ultra long weaves and bleached skin/lighter make up fail to understand is they are not seen as any less black by other cultures. They are seen as black women who are trying to run away from themselves.

My natural hair does not look uncivilised as I comb and style just as I would with relaxed hair or a weave. I wear make up and hair pieces to compliment my look. The number of black women who tell me they love my look but they are not confident enough to go natural . Society has already told us that afro hair is not pretty or desirable. We have accepted it as true.

I agree with the poster who stated that white women who tan are not trying to be black but just want a 'I have been on holiday' look.

My pleasure Thorn and DeeCee

NoodleOodle That's bloody awful. Back when I was in year 11, it seemed like most of the girls were going on to do hairdressing. You'd think that with a constant stream of new trainees, more of them would learn to deal with all hair!

It seems to me that professional standards require that one can do all aspects of a job, not just the most common bits (in this case, white hair) that one encounters each day.

Noodle that's your daughters hair. Would any teacher tell a Caucasian or asian girl with curly hair it was not acceptable highly unlikely. I hope you made it clear to school it was unacceptable behaviour.

it's not always a colour issue sometimes background. I remember vividly my best friend in primary was an Irish girl I remember her for her wild mass of gorgeous brown curls. It was just shoulder length occasionally hitting her face but I wouldn't say it was messy. The teacher had it in for this girl. I remember her humiliating this girl apparently she had dirty nails, it was plasticine? She hit her with ruler on her knuckles.

another time she said if I catch you again with that hair out I will cut it off. She didn't sound sarcastic when she said it. She often mentioned her hair. Thinking about it now she definitively had it in for her because she was irish nothing else. I was guilty by association so she used to pick on me too.

I don't agree white women tan for a holiday look ,why do some women have a annual tan, if holidays are seasonal, or taken at intervals? The truth is I hear many of them moaning they look too pasty white, not pretty. Again it's the crappy beauty industry, music industry basically media to blame for this poor body image. bronzing powder that's relatively new same idea. apparently bronzing powders for browns skins too, yeah like I need bronzing?, I don't fall for that nonsense at all!

I remember watching chat show I won't name years ago now, American, where parents were using chemicals to relax their nursery school kids hair to look pretty. These kids even thought they looked ugly with their natural hair. It was sad to see the kids moaning or crying because the relaxer stung, but still they persisted relaxing their hair to apparently look "pretty" . If the brainwashing about so called perceived beauty starts this young those girls don't have a chance to change when older, they will find it too hard to make the transition.

Ironically the same thing happens amongst Asians. apparently we should all have straight sleek shiny hair. If a baby is born with curly hair it is bemoaned oh she has "bushy" hair, meaning it's ugly. Nevermind she has gorgeous curls no it's bushy and nasty. I remember an asian girl at my secondary school I was horrified to learn some students from the same background as me had nicknamed her the Afro bangla. Because she was bangladeshi but had incredibly big hair. she had small ringlets like Whitney looked like in the. 80s which I think was pretty and very cool.

I've gone on a bit but I believe these hair issues are down to same issue they have a white complex, think they should look a certain way to be deemed beautiful.

DW and I booked into a salon in Birmingham to have our hair done for our wedding (went in personally together to book so they saw us both beforehand). We arrived on our wedding morning and the stylist assigned to DW refused to do her hair because it was black and natural. I'd suspect homophobia but the woman was quite happy to do my hair instead. Fortunately the senior stylist stepped in but FFS...

I disagree with the stereotype that a black woman is 'bossy' as oppose to feisty!

I have always been told of the stereotype that white women are 'weak. submissive and typically nothing more than housewives' whereas black women are 'strong, feisty amazonian type women, know how to get what is wanted from their men' all of this in a derogatory way to white women and positive for black women.

Just what I've always come across!

I also agree that tanning is not for a 'holiday look' but because we are told by beauty companies that pale is bad and a healthy glow is fantastic!

It would appear that whatever you look like, society tells you that you need to change it!

I personally think dark skin, natural hair is all beautiful!

Pressed send too soon.

I also think light skin, white skin whatever, is beautiful. Apart my own skin. It looks fine on other people who are just that little bit darker, but not my own. I also like dark hair, light hair. Etc.

I would never look at any woman with a different colour hair than is natural and assume she was trying to be x, y or z. I'd assume she just preferred it that way.

I can't express how sad I find this all. I'd be utterly distressed and frustrated if my daughter was told that who she is, isn't good enough or does not fit in with societal ideals that quite frankly, are impossible to maintain permanently.

I really am glad I've read all this. It truly is an eye opener

Is this touching on a deeper issue about women and self esteem?

Eveesmummy I disagree with the stereotype that a black woman is 'bossy' as oppose to feisty!
Well, there's a saying, "one swallow doesn't make a summer".

Your post looks very much like you're denying black women's experiences of racism there, because you haven't noticed it. Did you mean it to come across that way? I don't disbelieve you that you've met people who made derogatory comments about your skin and appearance, because there are derogatory arseholes everywhere. But just because you were in one room somewhere, having an arse tell you white women were submissive, doesn't mean that somewhere else at the same time, a black woman wasn't being called aggressive for the crime of having an opinion while being black.

Me, I have never been told that I'm submissive because I'm white, or heard of anyone else being told it, but black friends and acquaintances have told me of being called 'loud, 'aggressive' etc. So I think black women almost certainly have it on a worse scale than white women do.

No no no, not at all did I mean to come across that way! I've read that stereotype in published books, articles and heard it said.

What I mean, I'm hoping I explain it well, we are all told stereotypes of other people. People from one culture, colour or place will be told one thing and another will be told something separate.

This is the one I have always heard. I'm not saying the other doesn't exist but this is one of many.

Tinky Southamerican men do that too. They try to get 'the whitest' woman possible (usually eastern european).
I have a friend from Bolivia who would not date any other than 'blonde, white, blue eyes', not because of 'personal taste' but to show off, like you said 'he made it' to people 'back home'.

I am not black, but I am not white (sort of light brown I guess, kind of what most Chinese people look like skin tone wise), I have got lots of 'good' comments from people from my own ethnicity who are darker than me because I am 'white' for them, but in the UK I get 'pretty for her type', same I was told by people who are 'whiter' than me including my own family

I have also met women from the same background as me telling me they were disappointed their children only have 'brown hair' (the ones married to white men) because they wanted the children to have blonde hair 'yellow like a baby chicken' (I just smiled, because what else can you do?)

Evesmummy I have also heard the stereotype of white women being weak, grateful, willing to spend money on their men etc. I know better than to group women merely on their race.
iI am glad you do not agree with the stereotype of black women, so many do. I have worked in organisations where management/colleagues expected me to be agressive. One manager even went as far as pushing my buttons (in very subtle ways of course) in the hope that I would explode. I did not fall for the bait. I acted professional at all times and she hated it!

Black women have endured far more than white women and black men. White men are very rarely
have never been discriminated against as they are the 'right' sex and the 'right' colour. They pull all the strings.

Thank you tinky!

I did like the quite 'pale, male and stale' from an article linked on here. I believe it was fusedog.

I don't think anyone would disagree that white women have it easier. I simply didn't realise just how much harder it was for black women.

Just thinking tho, white people are horrible to ginger people. They are seen as 'ugly'. I remember hoping DD wouldn't be ginger. It's no where near the same but has the basis of natural not being right. Such a shame.

I simply don't see why we do this! It's horrible!

I think ginger hair is gorgeous. Especially when thick.

So does my gran. She says how DDs hair (dark blonde) looks like it may go ginger. I get ever so defensive. The same when she says DDs dad is ginger. They have the exact same hair colour and as someone who has spent the last 12 years bleaching her hair to shit, I hope it stays that colour.

I feel terrible saying that!

I never even thought of it before. It's just natural for me to not want my daughter to have bright orange hair. That's what I've been bought up with. I love auburn and red but not bright ginger and pale pale skin.

uk.images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=Az_6xdn8eDFThSgAZQlNBQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTIzN242bW9uBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZAM3NDJjNTkwNzAyZWVmODFjMTY4NTM4YTNhYmIyODBiZQRncG9zAzE0BGl0A2Jpbmc-?back=uk.images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image&va=ugly+ginger&fr=iphone&tab=organic&ri=14&w=200&h=287&imgurl=www.the-top-list.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/ugly_ginger_people-1.bmp&rurl=www.the-top-list.com/top-10-pictures-of-ugly-gingers/&size=168.2KB&name=ugly_ginger_people+(1)&p=ugly+ginger&oid=742c590702eef81c168538a3abb280be&fr2=&fr=iphone&tt=ugly_ginger_people+(1)&b=0&ni=58&no=14&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=11s2l08u9&sigb=13a9afb2u&sigi=128apb30t&sigt=114p7039t&sign=114p7039t&.crumb=BeTJvfr7ncL&fr=iphone

Potentially (if I've done it correctly) that's an image of a stereotypical ugly ginger person.

Amy Adams, Jessica chastain are examples of 'good ginger' as it were...

I have been reading this thread with interest.

fusedog, I agree with what you have said. I am very dark brown and my mixed race son has green eyes. It was never an issue for me or his father...ffs, he can see out of them, that's all that matters, surely? But then I have people who have asked me whether I can trace my family history back as it's unusual for a child to have such light eyes. Is it? Who cares?

I would never bleach my skin. Ever. But I can see why women would. As a black woman, sometimes, I want to be like a blank canvas, where judgements can't be made on my skin tone. Sometimes, I just want to blend in. Does that make sense?

Sometimes, I want to be treated the same; not better or worse, but the same. Sometimes, I don't want to have to be the spokesperson for the entire black race. Sometimes, I just want to be me. And sometimes, I don't want to have to feel responsible for a crime that someone of the same colour as me has committed (Those guys that killed that soldier)...my whole race was put on trial for something that was fuck all to do with anyone but the assholes who did it, or at least, that is how it felt to me and other black people I know.

Sorry for waffling and I have not meant to offend anyone.