To be more than annoyed when people inform me my children need a good smack?

[Slightlyneuroricnat]

It really winds me up.
Not so much the oldies who say " in our day I would have a got a whack for that " but people that can see I'm already having a tough time dealing with 2 toddlers, my eldest daughter is going through a phase ( I bloody hope ) of hitting everyone including me and we always have the same conversation, I don't hit you and you must not hit mummy, you've hurt me and now we are going home.
So we had this yesterday in a park and a lady informed me that I was " wishy washy " and what she actually needed was a good smack herself.
Am I being unreasonable to think she is an ignorant fool or am I some kind of martyr as I don't believe in hitting children?

Oh I thought she meant God!!!

No. That was a dig at me for pointing out that rambling at stressed out two year old's isn't the best way to communicate with them

"Random, yes toddlers are capable of understanding cause and effect but they do not always have the emotional restraint not to let that understanding overrule their emotionally driven instincts" Isn't that an argumetn not to hit them?

"Young children face few moral dilemmas comparable with the ones you've described because they have no responsibilities". True.But how people deal with moral dilemmas is influenced by how they were taught to deal with them.

Aaaarrghhh.

I am guilty of a random apostrophe!

That comes of trying to multi task.

Social services would combust if they were made to investigate every single case of a loving parent who had ever smacked their child. Combust.

Do you also think they should be removed from their homes Spero? In my daughter's class at school that would probably leave about three children. That's her one class of her one school. Where do propose they all go Spero? Do tell?

Now gold don't be coy. That was a dig at you for pointing out that you know what the absolute best way for dealing with a wound up two year old is .

Yes basil that could be an argument not to hit. You could also argue that in those interim years a smack administered to force an association with pain with an act that would result in them feeling, well, pain and considerably more of it is a good thing if it deters them from doing it. You would argue the former, I the latter. I, not being the all seeing eye, will say frankly I don't know for a fact that is the best way but it certainly seems that way to me. You and the all and the any kind of smacking whatsoever is abuse, neglect and downright evil brigade believe that you absolutely, unconditionally know for a gold plated fact that your line of thought is right. Why?

Oh carry on with your hyperbole. Carry on.

It's been fun.

"You and the all and the any kind of smacking whatsoever is abuse, neglect and downright evil brigade believe that you absolutely, unconditionally know for a gold plated fact that your line of thought is right. Why?"

Where have I said that any kind of smacking whatsoever is abuse, neglect and downright evil?

Why are you making things up?

I don't know whether I'm right or wrong btw.

But I'd rather err on the side of not inflicting pain as a parenting method, than inflicting pain. I think people who don't do it, don't need to explain why they don't. People who are convinced it's a valid reasonable way to proceed need to explain why it's a positively good thing as they're the one promoting a course of action. I'm not promoting a course of action, I'm saying I don't do something. I don't care if you hit your kids, I'm just not keen on hitting mine or anyone else's.

I was smacked around the head a lot as a child.

DD is incredibly challenging and sometimes when she's being an especially massive PITA I get v brief flashbacks of being smacked and it helps me to keep my temper with her.

I'd probably be sick if I ever did that to either of my children.

We do a lot of joke bum spanking, though....it's a great source of amusement to all of us.

Bum Bongo, not Um Bongo...that's what it is.

That was a dig at you for pointing out that you know what the absolute best way for dealing with a wound up two year old is

Not dealing with; communicating with. This is a concept you seem to be finding very hard to grasp.

And I thought I invented bum bongoes...

Still intrigued to know how you figured out the tap on the hand was the best way to deliver effective amount of pain.

And here's the thing. Not all parents who smack get their children taken into care. But 95% of my clients smack.

So I would say there is a definite correlation.

Sleep, I'm glad you're such a fan of the law. The law is very simple, smacking a child occasionally and not hard enough to leave a scar is legal. Parliament debated this and this was the distinction drawn between what is acceptable and what is not

WRONG.

In England it is a criminal offence to physically chastise your child if you leave a mark. That's any mark not just a scar so redness bruising any mark at all however temporary that mark is

Newt, yes it has. Take care.

And seeing as Newt's out perhaps someone else would care to explain why the anti-smackers' thoughts are automatically well reason and thought out lines of argument but mine are 'hyperbole'?

Apologies if you never suggested that Basil, but I think I'm the only pro smacking poster that has kept up with the thread and there are quite a few posters who have suggested exactly that so I lumped you in with them. My lazy and ineffectual parenting style has crossed over into my mumsnetting.

I'm not promoting a course of action by the way. I don't believe that every child should be smacked and I actually don't even look at at those that I consider to be exhibiting appalling behaviour, such as aggression towards other children, and think that child needs a smack. What, I admit, I do think when I see that sort of thing is thank fuck mine don't behave that way, I must be doing something right and as I do smack occasionally and as part of my general parenting tools which probably includes most if not all of those smugly suggested to me on this thread, that particular method is included in that.

I have two bright, vocal, witty, sparky, confident, attached and much loved children who validate, to me, that it's a reasonable way to proceed. I don't think I 'need' to explain why I think it is positively good for them but I have taken the trouble to repeatedly, and at length on this thread because we are debating an issue on a public forum, isn't that how it works?

Spero,

You were asked an interesting question up thread, what happens to children whose parents physically harm them, those parents who think they are good parents but use physical chastisement or other generally considered to be abusive methods?

I'm wondering if your in a position to know this. (And am hoping you will ignore the fact that I know you know,and that you know I know that you know )

Need, I meant mark. I obviously meant mark and not scar because to of meant scar the smacker would have to be using sharp objects (no spear, I haven't considered it) to smack with.

Tbh it did not read as if you meant that, and you do come across as the type of parent who would think leaving a red mark or swelling would be ok. Given your fierce defence of a out dated and very frowned apon practise that's usually only done these days by the type of parents who most people would not want to take parenting advice from.

Out of interest why did you say to your child "when we get home" why wait until your behind closed doors?

I think those children end up damaged.

They may not be damaged enough to attract the attention of the police or social workers, but I think to grow up in a household where you are taught that you will be hit if you displease an adult, particularly if an adult quite deliberately uses violence in a controlled and purposeful way, you learn a dangerous lesson about power and coercion.

And all you smackers who say, o it's just a little tap, it doesn't hurt them - then as so many others have said - what is the point . If it doesn't hurt or scare them, what is the point?

Here's another thing. I would estimate 95% of my clients were smacked as children.

No one I know who smacks their children finds it works. They just carry on smacking and they generally have defiant and angry children.

Why do it? Why hit a child ? Just why?

Your thoughts on it are much the same as mine and for what it's worth the vast majority of my clients were also smacked as children, it's one of the reasons we cover positive parenting in our abuse groups.

Socially I do not know even one parent not one who I have ever know to either smack or threaten to.

My daughter used to go to a primary school in a very rough part of South London. I would routinely watch her little class mates be cuffed and swiped at drop off time at for the heinous crime of skipping or talking too loudly.

Fast forward 10 years and where will those children be.

These are YOUR people smackers. Retreat behind your walls of denial and minimisation and little taps all you want. Funny kind of 'love' you show.

And if you 'hardly ever do it' and 'hate doing it' - then why don't you just stop?

I don't understand people saying it works, surely if it did you would only ever have to do it once.

I agree It's not love.

Nothing says 'I love you' quite like a smack on the hand eh ?

Thank you need.

Spero, to be honest I thought you were probably a psychologist. So you're a lawyer working in the field of child abuse? I presume that's okay for me to say given you keep alluding to your profession.

Might I suggest that in that case your perception on any general debate about smacking is totally skewed. Given that any debate on here about the powers of social services or child abuse and neglect spews forth a million (exaggeration) social workers declaring that for any case to reach the courts there must be a very, very strong case that those children interest's would be better served if they were removed from their parents, you must be spending most of your working days dealing with the most horrifying cases of abuse and neglect? If that's the case and it's not just MN that lets me conclude that, I have a lot of friends that work in that field including my best friend and my husband, then the 95% of the clients (or their children)that you are referring to aren't those that are occasionally smacked but always very well cared for, much loved and doted upon kids, like mine are they?
The physical abuse that your clients or their children receive extends to more than a smack on their hand every few months or so doesn't it? In fact, now knowing your profession I can understand where all of your talk of implements and whacking children about the head and face come from. If that wasn't actually a reality that you professionally deal with, I would state again that how you could reach that line of thought, from where I'm coming from is disturbing in itself.

Please stop comparing me, or any other parent that occasionally smacks their child's hand with your clients. It is categorically not a slippery slope.

I hate this comment, however it only comes from my very badly behaved childless siblings, therefore I when they say it.

I don't agree with smacking per set, but each to their own. The odd toddler or even older tantrum is normal and a genuine expression of annoyance, a slap will not change that D's. So please myob.

Yes I am a lawyer in child protection.

And I don't agree with smacking in any shape or form. It's not an act of love.

But carry on smackers. My mortgage still has another 20 years to run so I need to keep working.