To think Carrie Bradshaw has no redeeming qualities?

[losercruiser]

I just finished the episode where she invites Big to stay with her and Aidan in their cabin in the woods.

Now if my boyfriend cheated on me (not just a one off but had a full blown affair with a married woman) and we had got to the point where I had somehow managed to forgive him and we were trying again. If we went on a weekend break and he invited the other woman because she was having boyfriend problems and they were good friends - I'd think fuck that!

I know Aidan didnt have to put up with that but there are many other examples of her not having any redeeming qualities -

Berating Charlotte for not offering to lend her thousands of dollars.
Always talking about herself - I remember when Stanford called her out on it.
Letting Aidan propose to her when she obviously didnt want to marry him.

horsetowater - SJP may be of Jewish decent, but the character Carrie is based on, is not.

The show is based on the column (Sex in the City) that Candace Bushnell wrote for The New York Observer in the 90s.

They 'whited' her out, because Bushnell is of Anglo decent. So, in fact, the didn't 'white' her out at all. They just happened to chose a part-Jewish actress to play the role.

I quite liked the book - but it was very of its time. I think if I'd read it after the Telly series I'd have felt differently. I love the Telly series. I love Big. I loved the ending - I loved when he came to fetch her from Paris. I stayed up into the wee hours of the morning to see that and it was well worth while. I never liked Aiden or Berger. I haven't seen the films and nor will I. They didn't happen.

The specific episode the OP mentions - the suffering in sufferin episode - is very funny. Poor old Big and his role reversal relationship. Which served him right.

I thought all the characters were shallow, vain and self-obsessed. I still used to enjoy the show, though. I didn't care about any of them but I enjoyed watching how they lived their lives and marvelling over the amazing clothes they wore. It was a kind of anthropological appeal, I suppose - it's probably what rich people get out of watching EastEnders or Corrie.

It was well written and well acted. And funny. That's all I ask, really.

not sure you were supposed to like her really. I liked the show as a peice of daft fluff. it's not serious tv is it.

SJP's skill in getting under your skin via her characterisation of Carrie for me, warrants praise. Carrie was neurotic, needy, selfish and annoying. I never got the impression that she was supposed to be likeable and was rather a melange of several characteristics perceived as being present in a certain type of NYC single woman.

Now plenty of women have taken issue with that in itself - the idea that the female self is constantly and relentlessly defined by the search for one's 'other half' and that therefore means a woman remains incomplete until then. And that melange was fairly unpleasant a lot of the time.

This is why I love Samantha Jones- Kim Cattrall's character. She refuses to be defined by a man. She tries it on for size and it doesn't fit. I am not claiming her character as a Feminist icon but I do think there was some breaking of the mould with Samantha. And of all four characters, Samantha did not, refused to judge other women. She was unapologetic about her choices and her self created life. The scene when she spoonfed Carrie with yoghurt on her jilted-honeymoon after Carrie slept for two days was deeply deeply moving. The whole idea of a woman showing a maternal, nurturing side that didn't need to be expressed via child rearing was (and is) fairly unusual.

And good friendship is all.

Bumpy

I do agree with you that there was some questionable portrayals of non Caucasian characters and i was fairly aghast at the moment in SATC film 1 when Miranda is looking for an apartment, sees a man with a baby and cried "White man with a baby- we need to go wherever he goes"

I was actually appalled and sat in the cinema wondering if I had heard something different to everybody else.

CatfromJapan SJP trained in classical ballet and I agree, she is a very physical actor with wonderful bodily awareness and control. In the SATC book (sad purchase) she mentions admiring the Buster Keaton movies, loves physical comedy and tries to make Carrie trip in every episode because of that.

Bailey I loved that scene

I also loved the scene where Charlotte shouted 'No' at Big after Carrie had assaulted him with her bouquet. So emotive and brilliantly acted by them all.

I disagree it was 'fluff' tv. The standard of writing was flagship, and the acting was excellent. The show also tackled loads of serious issues in its own unique way - Charlotte's infertility, Samantha's cancer and Steve's mother's dementia to name a few.

It was new and different when it started. Four friends, speaking bluntly about stuff that mattered to them. That was new. NYC too that was good to look at. You do need some parts of a character that people don't like, it makes people watch as much as the likeable stuff.

The film is utter tosh, but SJP really does look broken just before the honeymoon. She does that bit well.

The writing is amazing, Darren Starr's in particular. The Shar Pei comment makes me cry with laughter. And the music scoring too- genius choices.

I think they decided that it'd be filmed in 'Forever Spring' to make NYC look its best but the unknowing coincidence of the episode that went out the week after 9/11 was spooky- it ended with an autumnal leaf falling to ground whilst Carrie talked of people moving in and on from our lives and a dedication to 'our city of New York'. Nobody could know of course in advance how pertinent that episode turned out to be.

I love this thread! I agree it was bizarre how little support Miranda got from the other women in the film after Steve cheated on her
My favourite moments in the series and films are the ones expressing the depth of friendship between them - like the samantha/carrie feeding scene.

I agree that Carrie was selfish and definitely the least relateable character for me. But she did have her loveable moments. And I agree, SJP made her likeable

I hadn't considered the idea of infidelity framed in the context of all the other marriage vows that many of us break on a regular basis. Somehow sexual infidelity has become positioned as the worst thing somebody can do (hence the fury poured upon the other woman and the unfaithful person) when in fact many spouses behave just as badly- in fact in ways worse than a one night stand.

SATC made me consider that when Steve said 'what about the vows YOU broke?' to Miranda.

I also think Cynthia Nixon really knows how to act a sex scene. She always looks flushed, rumpled and real! The lighting and make up of course is beautiful but her make up scenes with Steve in the film were amazing. Steve breaks my heart in every scene - those puppy dog eyes.

I think they never actually really believed that Miranda loved Steve so didn't pay much attention to her suffering, whilst Carrie had been going on and on and on about Big since forever.

That episode where Aidan invites Carrie to his cabin and she wears heels and screams when she falls over in the mud...he should have just hit her over the head with a spade and buried her there! She's a silly baby-woman.

I love this read and am so enjoy the reminiscing over all the episodes!!

I loved SATC and loved the first film!!

I loved the ending to the TV series when she looks up from the floor (when collecting her necklace beads) and sees Big standing there....oh it was just so lovely the way she started crying. It was so romantic!!

I didn't think much of the 2nd film as I found the kiss with Aidan a bit unrealistic and I found Big's quick forgiveness also a bit weak. After the whole Big Drama throughout the entire TV series there's no way she'd actually snog Aidan behind his back, a guy she never seemed that bothered about anyway.

I never thought Aidan was attractive - no sex appeal whatsoever.

I always liked Charlotte - there's something about her naivety that pulled on my heartstrings.

Miranda's persona as a capable Lawyer came back to haunt her when she left Steve. It seemed so anti feminist and I was never sure whether the film was trying to say this or not. Miranda was being punished for working hard, being a busy Mother and trying to do it all. Her punishment was being cheated on because she sexually neglected her husband.

Mind you when she started moaning about her busy life and mentioned PTA meetings my first thought was 'why add that totally unnecessary pressure to your life?' If you are busy with work leave PTA to women who have more time to give to it.

I would give a lot to have a cabin in the Catskills or wherever it was. Shame on Carrie!

Am I the only person who always wants to get the SATC box set out in the Spring and watch it? There have been two SJP/Carrie threads in the last few days and it made me wonder..........

I've only seen a few episodes here and there - enough to convince me that prim little Charlotte and her crisp pastel sundresses was one of the most irritating TV creations ever, while Samantha, and especially Miranda, had their redeeming points.

What got to me about Carrie was that she was supposed to be a celebrated journalist, whereas everything we got in voiceover, supposedly from her columns, had all the subtlety and emotional intelligence of a Hallmark card verse. (Her 'insights' make Meredith Grey's copycat voiceovers on Grey's Anatomy look like they were written by Henry James...)

I agree Burren - that daft 'the last time anybody enjoyed a 69 was in 69' quote is a case in point.

There is just something about the billowing curtains, open window onto a forever Spring like NYC street that makes me nostalgic for a life that was never actually mine. I guess it makes me think back to the me who watched the show back in the late nineties/early 2000s.

i loved satc as a series but yes, totally agree about carrie, she is not someone i would choose to be friends with.

I had the most tremendous crush on Aidan. Even worse I have watched My Big Fat Greek Wedding six times just to ogle him. If he turned up at the door now I'd get my jacket off the peg and be off. Bye, dh and dcs!

I lived in NY for a few years and yes, there are women like this. One girl I knew spurned a perfectly good "opportunity" because his apartment only had one bathroom . There are so many very materialistic people there - on a level most of us can't begin to appreciate. The men are just as bad as the women: always on the look-out to trade up.

I was working in NYC at the time, although my life wasn't exactly like Carrie's(!) so I get very nostalgic when I watch old episodes, too.

love the show. She was the least likeable character. In real life neither Big or Aiden would have gone for her though. Charlotte was my fave.
got me through breastfeeding watching reruns. husband was worried about the effect of all that oestrogen fuelled girlishness would have on our son!!!

I LOVED the show, and when I was single & yes, a bit lonely... I felt I had something in common with Carrie, and the others. It was glamorous, aspirational and a bit 'grown up' which felt right as I was late teens, on the verge of adulthood & trying to make my way in the world. I also had a cheap first 'love' who in my head, was like Big...

Fast forward a few years though, and I found her very hard to watch.

Samantha was fab through the cancer storyline, my mum had been diagnosed & it was very moving, but funny too.

*crap first love, although he was cheap as well!

The episode when Miranda's mum dies is also very moving.
She struggling with her feelings and breaking down whilst buying a bra.
Samantha struggling to give emotional support but finally giving in at the church...that made me cry.
And Carrie walking with Miranda who had no spouse to walk with her.

It is not only about fashion and sex, they deal with a range of issues that women can relate too.

And I always envy their friendship so much. I think that is what makes the show so appealing to me.