to think that this country needs to improve wraparound care for school age children

[PontOffelPock]

There is rightly a lot of focus at the moment on the cost of pre-school childcare.

However, for us at least, the real killer has been the lack of decent, affordable wrap around care for school-age DCs. Its nigh on impossible to find an available childminder near our school to do the pick-ups, there is no breakfast/after-school club, and we both have an hour commute, so we are increasingly reliant on family. The holiday club we enrolled our DCs in is very expensive. I wonder how on earth other parents who both work full time (and one parent isn't a teacher) manage when school hours are 9-3 plus all the holidays.

AIBU to think that this needs some focus so that parents are able to work full-time if they need to?

Not a childminder could fit our needs.

DH works 6-2 2-10 10-6 Monday to Friday ( Sunday night on 10-6) I work 7am to 2:30 Tuesday to Thursday.

Childcare needed when DH is 2-10 ( my mum picks up the kids as I need childcare for 20 minutes max) 6-2 from 6 am to 8:50 school drop off time ( mil does it)

Then they wait until their parents get home and tell them then. Resilient, confident, happy children at good quality after school care can do that.

You're obviously highly competent sirchenjin that you can manage to work, get home, get dinner and still have time and energy to discuss in full any issues arising from school and facilitate a wide range of activities before getting young dc into bed at a reasonable time.

I am not so competent and can't do all that (unless I had an extra 2 hours in the day). Therefore good job I don't have to

georges I'm sure your dc will enjoy time spent with you and their new sibling. It isn't always easy balancing the needs of multiple dc but I'm sure you will get used to it and you could ask your dc what it is they like doing at after school club and do it yourself at home: baking, having friends round, playing games, going to park, going out to a Cafe..

I think you're getting us mixed up with the US . We're in an affluent suburb of Toronto; our cost of living is high but not as bad as Toronto-proper or Vancouver and nowhere near as nuts as London.

We have quite a lot of private wrap around care provision here so finding it hasn't been a problem, my girls go to the after school club at the private nursery they've been attending for years, and that their little brother goes to. However, holiday cover is much harder, and I'm not quite sure how we are going to cover the summer holidays, nursery doesn't have a holiday club and a lot of the holiday clubs round here only cover school hours which is no use. And the cost of childcare is ridiculous, i thought there would be a significant decrease in our childcare costs once we had 2 at school but the decrease has only been about £200 a month.

Well I have to say that I think that all of us should simply look after each other's kids as it was in my youth. There is nothing wrong with asking your mate to pick up your kids all week if they are going anyway?

You could then return the favour by babysitting or looking after their kids?

I really don't get this. Why can't we ask this of each other?

Not4returning. Maybe because everyone is at work?

Mutley77 My expensive but very good quality after school club usually has 2 carers for up to 10 kids (so higher ratios than average). On a Friday there are currently just 3 kids, my 2 daughters and one of their best friends. They have a great time, and there isn't a lot of staff turnover at nursery so the girls that look after them have known and cared for them since they were babies. They have a good relationship with the staff because they have known them for so long. We've considered swapping to an au pair for our wrap around care (would be cheaper and they'd get their tea earlier) but removing them from such a secure environment seems pointless.

Oh I know its dead easy mutley. I work at the after school clu holiday club and nursery and run it all. I deal with 25 children and my soon to be 3 everyday. I find children really easy to deal with as its been my career for so long.

Im doing something slightly more challenging and having 2 weeks off and starting on a masters degree so dh has got the easy children bit and I have the difficult bit, but hey ho will all work out Im sure.

I know it seems naff but write to your MPs and local councillors about this. Their addresses are online here you can find your local one by sticking in your postcode.

There's a general election coming up. If enough people make enough noise then they will listen.

This is how big business get government to do what they want listen by lobbying. It wouldn't take much longer than writing a few posts on here.

I'm going to!

And if the response is rubbish then write back and tell them so.

It just makes no sense to me to mortgage yourself to the hilt such that you have no choice to both keep working, thus necessitating the use of dubious childcare, to 'keep a roof over your heads'

Hahaha

We bought before we decided on children and didn't get the maximum we could.

Only people who have the choice of staying at home say these kinds if things.

Sorry but I really don't agree with increasing ratios.The only people to benefit would be the parents and it's not about them.

Kids need a variety of stimulating activities after school including outdoor.I also think actually they need a good level of adult contact for well being,having been 1 of 30 all day.No way would I want mine slumped in front of the TV or bored in a school hall(due to number restrictions on activities)full of limited resources and very few adults.And yes wrap around does need Ofsted to keep it on it's toes.

Sorry but a pile em high,keep it cheap philosophy is not in the best interests of the children involved.It may suit parents who only care about saving money but certainly isn't what all parents or children would want.

At least there is childcare (albeit expensive) is available. I have a disabled child and nothing is available at all for my DC.

Wrap around care means a very long and tiring day for young children. I would prefer it if there was a campaign for more flexible working hours for parents so that the children aren't away from their homes and families for up to 12 hours a day. Exhausted parents and children don't make for comfortable family evenings.

We made a conscious decision to buy a house with a mortgage only on my DH's salary so that I could be a SAHM until the youngest started school. We also limited our family to 2 DCs. I did do some part time work in the evenings when the DCs were pre school and they were looked after by DH.

House prices have soared since then and many families feel that both parents have to work just to provide the basics. Flexible working hours would make childcare easier and less expensive for most families.

Sometimes sacrifices have to be made for the good of the DCs and one career put on the back burner when they are very young.

I think sahms find it difficullt to cope with things and think working parents do, however usually working parents are more driven and organised. I dont find doing 10 hours at all stressful and neither do my children.

My children still have lots of energy and are up every day raring to go at 6a. Its the same as the can a year 1 child walk 3/4 miles thread If you child isnt used to doing much then they havent got much energy/can do these things. I was brought up by two working parents so get my motivation and get up and go from that.

I've managed childcare by some serious forward planning. I've worked school hours since dcs were born. I renegotiated my contract when I returned to work after DC1, mindful of the fact I had a good boss at the time who was open to the idea and knowing that I was unlikely to be able to renegotiate my contract again in the future.

I spent DCs nursery years working these inconvenient hours (3 days working, 2 days off would have been much nicer!) waiting for the pay off when they started school.

Now, DH drops off at breakfast club at 8 and works later in the evening, and I pick up at 3. Our school does have an after school club set up by parents/run privately, but I don't like to use it unless desperate.

There was a massive consultation on childcare last year! Wraparound care and the provision of it are one of the things being discussed by Elizabeth Truss.
As a CM I received a letter from her detailing how the government are hoping to address the issue of wraparound care amongst other things.

They're already on it!

But Tanith outlined how CM had been under cut by funded breakfast and after school provision that had then been pulled.

I'm on maternity leave so my school so my kids aren't in after school club, they really miss it and have been so happy the odd day they have gone as I have dr appointments at awkward times that couldn't be rearranged.

They are begging for more after school activities. I dont work Fridays so they go to football and brownies, I drive around in circles picking one up an dropping the other off. If they had their way everyday would be like that.

They want to do something after school and still have bags of energy. Coming home (like in bad weather) means stress over screen time and lots of arguing between them.

I have a friend who makes comments about my children getting tired and thinks it a shame they have to go to after school club as they must just want to go home and chill out. But they really don't they get bored and argue. They like having friends to play with.

If I stayed home full time, I would need ££££ for after school activities and have to have weekly play dates.

It might be a personality thing though as I am also very bored of staying at home for maternity leave. Daily exercise classes and coffee with friends just don't do it for me, like my children the only 'benefit' appears to be more PC/TV time.

Yes - highly competent and organised Mutley, and you would be too, I'm sure. Don't put yourself down.

Agree georges - my children are still wide awake at the end of the wraparound and/or after school day. When they were at wraparound they were dropped off at 8.20am and collected at 5.30-5.45 - so dropped off for a short play before school, and then a couple of hours of organised activities (or free play if they chose). Any evening activities are finished before a decent bed time. Now the youngest is at after school club he's dropped at school around 8.35 and plays until the same 5.30ish until I pick him up after work. Pretty much the same as SAHPs who pick up their DCs and go onto after school activities or play dates....

As I said upthread, children are highly resilient and quickly get used to their routine, and providing you get good quality childcare that they are happy attending, there's no need to worry.

Affordability and availability seem to be either side of a tug of war - if it paid well enough people would be willing to provide wrap-around care, if it pays badly then they won't. If it costs too much people won't take it up in the first place so the places wouldn't get filled.

Is looking after several 4-12 year old children tired after a day at school but needing to do homework a job you would be happy to do for minimum wage or not much more, if not then what kind of rate would you want for that? Especially if you had children of your own with whom you'd like to spend time.

I work in a pre-school during the day term time, low wages are what I accept for being able to be with my children outside of their school hours but there is absolutely no way I'd work for that rate of pay at a time when my children weren't in school. I'm not sure I'd do it at all but if I did then it would need to be for at least double to make it worth while.

It works out quite well for me oddballs. I get all food provided for my dcs, free trips to zoo etc and in effect I get paid for doing a large play date every night. I think it appeals to a lot of mums and here it is a highly sought after job although the rate of pay is low.

Who are all these tired children who need to be home straight after school? Seriously, children should be perfectly capable of playing after school for a couple of hours at an after school club. They can do their homework there (if it's a good club) or do it when they get home while you're cooking dinner.

Oddballs - don't forget that after school clubs usually accept employers childcare vouchers and (I believe) can be claimed for under WFTC, so as georges says, it can work out cheaper than paying for after school and holiday activities.

Not all women Miss! DH is a stay at home Dad. I work. I'm moving on with my career now and I will not compromise on it. I'm in the office 8-6, I have the higher earning potential.

When DS was small we paid through the nose for good child care. Now there's nothing suitable (he's 10). My job is a big part of my identity, DH is a brilliant Dad and Househusband. Why do it any other way?

When I move up at work the first question is always 'how are you for childcare?'. They assume I'll need a grace period etc if the hours have changed.

Never give up your career to be supported by a partner is my advice.

Our after school club is only till 5, no breakfast club and no childminders. Luckily my work are understanding about me leaving early to get back for 5 and then working later.

However those saying holidays are problematic, I actually find them FAR easier. Local leisure centre runs holiday club from 8.30-5.30. It is £25, usually with 10% early booking discount and then 20/40% off if using vouchers. Works out at £18/£13.50 for a full day with swimming, trampolining, rollerskating, badminton etc. kids love it