to think that this country needs to improve wraparound care for school age children

[PontOffelPock]

There is rightly a lot of focus at the moment on the cost of pre-school childcare.

However, for us at least, the real killer has been the lack of decent, affordable wrap around care for school-age DCs. Its nigh on impossible to find an available childminder near our school to do the pick-ups, there is no breakfast/after-school club, and we both have an hour commute, so we are increasingly reliant on family. The holiday club we enrolled our DCs in is very expensive. I wonder how on earth other parents who both work full time (and one parent isn't a teacher) manage when school hours are 9-3 plus all the holidays.

AIBU to think that this needs some focus so that parents are able to work full-time if they need to?

There are a lot of employed people hence all schools having a childcare club, private clubs, provision for literally any hours and childminders. It is a low waged area I very much doubt anyone would ever get paid 12 an hour in nurseries or clubs. Graduates in nearly all trades except for government jobs are on minimum wage even translators that can speak 2/3 languages fluently.

Eyps can have 1.13 so you can have them on minimum wage and its easy to provide care.

After school clubs dont follow the eyfs either.

I suspect the hours are shorter than suits some working parents as a 10 hour day is a pretty rough deal for a school aged child. 6 hours is hard going. My childminder friends won't have kids before 7 or after 6.30, for similar reasons. They regularly get requests from working parents to take their kids from 6am to 7pm! And say no!
(official line: impacts too greatly on family time. Actual reason:they believe it's detrimental to the child.

Really usuallytired? Your children must have less energy than mine even after the full 10 they are still going!

9-5? Hasn't been in private sector my entire working life. I've never had a 9-5.

I've had 9-6 or 830-6. And I worked in offices! Strikes me 9-5 only ever existed in bloody public jobs.

Anyway I digress.... Yanbu. I agree. Childcare is prohibitively expensive. But when NHS still do 9-4 quite what do you expect out of childcare? The worlds moved on but by 'eck will some in government and local gov pretend otherwise.

My five year old is shattered after a day at school-that's more than enough for some children.

I live in Canada and our local schools have before and after care provided in the school gym by the YMCA. It's VERY expensive (before and after care would set you back the same as full-time daycare), there is a year-long waiting list to enroll AND it's absolute chaos. I've had to go into the building after school on several occasions with my children and there are kids running riot, belongings strewn everywhere, no discernible organized activities of any kind and no WAY is any homework being done. And this is the BEST available. Why, oh why, don't people think of all this before having kids? DH and I didn't have our first DC (age 25 and 28, respectively) until we could afford to do it on ONE income. We brought our first baby home to a two-bedroom condo and it was just fine...we now live in a five bedroom family house (still on one income) but we had to be patient and wait until we could properly afford the mortgage before doing so, not the other way around. It just makes no sense to me to mortgage yourself to the hilt such that you have no choice to both keep working, thus necessitating the use of dubious childcare, to 'keep a roof over your heads'. CRAZY.

Oscar - my Canadian friends and relatives couldn't afford to live where we do in the UK. Your cost of living is much lower.

georgesdino I'm not sure if your question was serious!

Am assuming most state school after school clubs wouldn't provide swimming, ballet, brownies, piano lessons. Also the kids there aren't necessarily the friends my children would want to play with. At home I can invite whoever they like.

Maybe my kids are particularly difficult but some days they just want one to one with a trusted adult (ie me or dh), or want to chill alone in their rooms (can they do that at after school club)? We also go out and do fun things on the spur of the moment after school, to me that's all part of family life and meeting the kids wider needs.

Most people work and so aren't around to do things on the spur of the moment - but the DCs manage absolutely fine. It's what they are used to - if they are used to mixing with a wide range of children, making friends easily, and being in organised, high quality, after school care then they do remarkably well. Brownies, sports, etc are done in the evening after parents get home from work.

Mutley that bit was aimed at tigermoll who said young children would get tired, but even the sahms/ds of reception children here are doing a wide range of activities after school like the ones I mentioned.

Mine are really popular so have lots of friends at their club and at school. It does depend if your children are extroverted or not. My club isnt at a school so loads of chill out areas, tvs,wii, pcs, soft play area etc.

We have the same georges - a great outdoor space with plenty of room to play, picnic benches, 2 indoor halls, one for running around in and one for crafts, computer games (strictly limited), reading, playing with games, homework, and then a kitchen for backing and making snacks like soup. There's also a fantastic swing park and woodland less than 5 minutes walk away, and a shop where they can buy ingredients with the play leaders.

It just makes no sense to me to mortgage yourself to the hilt such that you have no choice to both keep working, thus necessitating the use of dubious childcare, to 'keep a roof over your heads'. CRAZY.

You really have no idea how incredibly expensive the cost of living is here. And renting in the UK is very, very expensive and insecure. It is legal to discriminate against people with children in housing, too, plenty of rental properties have a landlord who stipulates 'no children'.

As a result, many people have no choice but to 'mortgage themselves to the hilt' to avoid the possibility of having to move every six months.

An increasing number of people cannot support themselves in their own accommodation (not a shared house or flat or living with parents) on one income at all.

I have no idea what we're going to do about wraparound care when DD starts school in Sept. The school offers nothing & when we were being shown around & I asked, the HT asked if I could give up work as that's what most other mothers apparently do. There is one CM who picks up from the school but she is full and has several other children on her wait list before DD. And I don't really want DD to go there as she goes there & stays there until we can collect around 6.30 meaning that, on those 3 days, there will be no option of any extra-curricular activities. I think our only option is going to be an after school nanny but I'm a bit dubious about that as I can't think of many people who'd want to work from 2.45 - 6.30 three days a week and then be available all day in the holiday. I say I think a nanny is our only option as I spotted some marketing bumpf for the local independent school the other day and noticed that they do 8.00 - 6.30 and, on initial sums, I don't think it would cost that much more...but the fees ramp up hugely for KS2 and then it does become unaffordable.

Georges you asked me a specific question further up the Thread. My oldest dc are both extroverted and popular but I don't think it changes the fact that I can meet their individual needs better than an after school club. Therefore I choose to be available to them as much as possible, I suppose to do cky to have the choice to work very flexibly, or at the moment not at all! If my dc wanted to go to the after school club I could send them anyway but it is not used a lot and therefore most of their friends wouldn't be there.

sirchenjin I'm not saying that dc in after school club don't do well just that many of my friends would see it as better to be around for them before and after school if they can. I have experienced seeing many working parents cut their hours when their kids start school. Fine for older kids to do activities after work but my dc couldn't manage that at reception and year one age, not to mention fitting in dinner.

Sorry should be I suppose I'm lucky to have the choice.

I was commenting on you saying childrens emotional needs dont get met at clubs and they cant play with friends or do activities they want. I wasnt aware you were talking of your own children as it seems like you were talking about all. Clubs vary a lot around the uk and there are some brilliant ones. Ours is very well used but thats because its fantastic, and weare lucky it has so much and does cater to every childs individual needs and interests.

Yes you read my post correctly first time. I do think children's needs are better met on a one to one basis at home after school. Same as many of my friends, hence why the after school club is not widely used, not because it doesn't offer what you are talking about.

I can't believe that you seriously don't see that as a valid point of view even if you don't agree with it yourself.

Its not a view shared by many of dds reception/year 1 parents as I said they all have a packed program of activities whether sahm or working. I suppose it depends on you area.

I can completely understand someone not wanting to use poor quality after school care - but that's completely different from saying that the 'emotional needs' of children are not met by after school care. Good quality care will meet their emotional needs - but in all the years I've been using such care my children have never needed their 'emotional needs' met. They are resilient, confident children who enjoy being amongst friends, playing and having fun - exactly what I wanted when raising children as a working parent.

We brought our first baby home to a two-bedroom condo and it was just fine...we now live in a five bedroom family house (still on one income) but we had to be patient and wait until we could properly afford the mortgage before doing so, not the other way around. It just makes no sense to me to mortgage yourself to the hilt such that you have no choice to both keep working, thus necessitating the use of dubious childcare, to 'keep a roof over your heads'. CRAZY.

How much did a 5-bed house cost you though?

I'm not talking about poor quality after school care I'm talking about any kind of group care after school.

My dc are happy and enjoy chatting to me, chilling out, doing a variety of after school activities and playing with their friends. All of which they could do if they went to after school care except that what I provide is on a more tailor made basis as I'm only catering to the needs of 3 dc. And yes in my opinion their emotional needs are better met at home for the same reasons. I find it hard to believe that any child doesn't have things they want to discuss about their day, good or bad, and it's easier to devote more attention to this on a ratio of 1 to 3 than 1 to 8.

I see it the other way mine have to stop soon and dd1 is already really upset and its 6 months away. I wish I was rich enough for her to keep it up hopefully I will be soon.

It's all very well saying you should plan to live on one income but what if the woman (and it's always the woman) have to give up work?