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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that this country needs to improve wraparound care for school age children

193 replies

PontOffelPock · 13/03/2014 21:51

There is rightly a lot of focus at the moment on the cost of pre-school childcare.

However, for us at least, the real killer has been the lack of decent, affordable wrap around care for school-age DCs. Its nigh on impossible to find an available childminder near our school to do the pick-ups, there is no breakfast/after-school club, and we both have an hour commute, so we are increasingly reliant on family. The holiday club we enrolled our DCs in is very expensive. I wonder how on earth other parents who both work full time (and one parent isn't a teacher) manage when school hours are 9-3 plus all the holidays.

AIBU to think that this needs some focus so that parents are able to work full-time if they need to?

OP posts:
Original poster
PontOffelPock · 13/03/2014 22:53

Yes sorry Vesta - was mainly thinking about the holidays.

OP posts:
Catrin · 13/03/2014 23:00

I understand your point completely, but will say, however, I completely do not understand your point
(and one parent isn't a teacher)
I appreciate teachers have the holidays, but they do not have jobs that work 9-3 only. Do not think that teachers in anyway get easy term time child care options!

Pasithea · 13/03/2014 23:00

How many couples think about this matter and give it serious consideration before having their children

manicinsomniac · 13/03/2014 23:07

I did (not as a couple as always been a lone parent but that made me think even more I guess). I was still at university when I got pregnant so I suppose (as stupid as it was) that also gave me an advantage in choosing a career that wouldn't cause childcare problems.

In all seriousness I would recommend independent school teacher to anyone looking for a career that will work around kids. You can have your children at school for as long as you like for no charge at all! Even in the holidays it's a safe place to bring them to play when you need to work. Not, it's not 9-3 and in most cases the hours are massively longer than in the state system but the extra hours don't matter because it is incredibly childcare friendly.

AuditAngel · 13/03/2014 23:08

If I could access better wrap around care I could move yo the London office of my firm and secure a promotion. But DH owns a bar/restaurant so can't do the school run everyday and an 8.30 drop off (no breakfast club) would mean getting yo work at 10, then still need to het back for 6pm. It just doesn't work.

Pasithea · 13/03/2014 23:16

Ok so who's problem is it, yours , local authority, government. And why ?

Well done manicinsomniac I'm impressed.

wobblyweebles · 13/03/2014 23:38

Well childcare is not at all subsidised by the government here yet there is plenty of wraparound childcare.

One things that helps is that schools start earlier. Elementary school is 8.20 to 3.10, and middle/high school is 7.30 to 2.30. So you only really need after-school care, although in our schools there are both before and after school clubs.

OTOH it is very difficult to find part-time work here, so there is lots of demand for wraparound care.

wobblyweebles · 13/03/2014 23:40

Also you don't hang around the playground at drop off time. You either put your kids on the bus, or you take them to school up to 20 minutes before school starts and leave them in the playground.

HerRoyalNotness · 14/03/2014 00:11

I think they need to look to the US/Canada and how it works. Currently my DS (6) goes to after school at a karate place. They have loads of minivans and pick DC up from school, go to the Dojo, half hr karate lesson, then homework or play until parent pickup. Open until 6.30pm. Inset days and the public holidays covered in the price at $400/mth. DS (3) goes to preschool which offers wrap around care for an extra $50/week, open 6.30 to 6.30.

When DS1 moves school in Sept, school is open 6.30 to 6.30 with the YMCA doing the program before/after school and cover inset days also. They do sports, art and homework. Again just over $400/mth.

Spring break and summer camps all over town depending in what your DC like to do, from language immersion to golf lessons or YMCA outdoor program, all about $250/wk.

And all claimable on taxes. If we had the money, I would love to set up similar in the UK in terms of summer camp programs. Get a good one and the DC are glowing and happy and tired out from fun/activity at the end of the day. It needn't be the government that gets these things started.

I don't like a lot of things about living in North America, but this one I do.

georgesdino · 14/03/2014 03:39

Where I am every school has a club and there are private clubs on top. Mine go and and can go there 7.30-6 daily and all holidays.

steff13 · 14/03/2014 04:07

Have you spoken with other parents in your school? If it's a pervasive issue, could you possibly address it privately? Perhaps get together and hire a couple of teachers or childcare providers to watch kids for 3 hours or so after school. Maybe the school would let you use the cafeteria or an art room. You could charge enough to pay the person a small amount of money per week, plus maybe provide a snack. You wouldn't want to pay a lot, obviously, but something to make it worth the person's while.

The Salvation Army does an after school program here, it's free, maybe they do something similar in your area.

Mimishimi · 14/03/2014 04:46

You could charge enough to pay the person a small amount of money per week, plus maybe provide a snack. You wouldn't want to pay a lot, obviously, but something to make it worth the person's while.

Herein lies the problem. Do you take crappy job paying £10 an hour at a checkout or crappy job looking after 25+ kids, dealing with late parents etc for £8 an hour . Which would be less stressful? If carers were paid well and there would not be a problem with provision of care/quality. Schools can't just hire out their facilities without some major concessions/negotiations from their insurers anyway. I expect that would be true of most public facilities.

coralanne · 14/03/2014 05:14

Pay the person a small amount of money?

It seems to me that quality childcare is the last in a great list of priorities for some people.

If you choose to have children then you also have to choose to provide safe, adequate, quality childcare for them if you wish to continue working.

No, it's not up to the government of the day to look after our children. Yes it's great if we can get Government assistance in some form or other but it should not be expected.

Somewhere along the line this idea of entitlement has to be nipped in the bud.

paxtecum · 14/03/2014 07:15

Can a group of you slightly reduce your hours so you take it in turns to pick up your children. ie five parents each finish work early one day per week and look after all the children?

rollonthesummer · 14/03/2014 07:18

Maybe the school would let you use the cafeteria or an art room. You could charge enough to pay the person a small amount of money per week, plus maybe provide a snack. You wouldn't want to pay a lot, obviously,

That is an absolutely disgusting attitude! Would you do that job??

Poor children.

georgesdino · 14/03/2014 07:20

Surely thats standard practice at all childminders and school clubs/private clubs? 1000s of people do that job

georgesdino · 14/03/2014 07:27

and why poor child rollonsummer? Dont be so offensive

coralanne · 14/03/2014 09:31

rollonthesummer so True.

Nothing offensive about it at all.

Again proving that for some people their children are very low down the list when it comes to priorities.

Maybe I am wrong but it seems to me that top price is willingly paid for houses, cars, holidays etc. but when it comes to quality childcare, it is a scramble to find the cheapest available no matter the quality.

georgesdino · 14/03/2014 09:42

Of course its offensive all childcare is low paid but that doesnt mean its bad for the child!

FreckledLeopard · 14/03/2014 09:49

What there needs to be is for childcare to be paid for, in full, from pre-tax salary. There also needs to be recognition from the Tax Credits people that not all people use 'conventional', 9am-5pm childcare providers, specifically if they have a demanding career.

If you're working long hours (i.e. not getting home til gone 9pm, leaving the house by 7am) then you need an au pair or a nanny. There is an assumption that if you're working such long hours you will be very well paid. Unfortunately this is not the case if you're beginning your career. When I was a trainee solicitor in the City, I would sometimes work 100 hours a week, sleep at the office and get home at 5am on a Saturday morning after doing a deal. My salary was not sufficient to pay for a nanny and yet I didn't qualify for any kind of tax credits.

There is a real lack of flexibility and consideration of any working parent who doesn't work 9am to 5pm. When I was eligible for Tax Credits when DD was very small, the people at the Tax Credit helpline had never even heard of an au pair and couldn't advise me as to how I could get my au pair registered to claim the childcare costs back.

Thank God DD is now old enough that she doesn't need childcare.

yoshipoppet · 14/03/2014 09:51

Dahlen said: Even if schools were open for childcare from 7.30am to 7.30pm, it would still leave shiftworkers at a disadvantage.

Schools are not there to provide childcare, they are there to educate your child.
I would prefer to see higher wages being paid so that families could afford to have only one parent at work.

Oldraver · 14/03/2014 09:55

I had to give up my job as I couldn't get DS into after school childcare and my employer refused to budge on flexible hours (and at the same time they have managed to do away with a pg collegue int he same circunstances)

My OH was originally doing after school care as his hours fit in with my hours

georgesdino · 14/03/2014 09:57

Its changing all the time. Look how far we have come since 2001.

oodyboodyboocs · 14/03/2014 10:49

YANBU I am planning to go back to work when my dd has started school in september. My biggest concern is childcare. There are no childminders in the area that will pick up from the school my children go to. I know this because I wanted one to pick up my dd from pre-school on a day when I am studying but every single one on the local list said they don't collect from there. My DH was able to work his hours to cover that one afternoon but he won't be able to cover regular pick up's. There is no after school care available at the school although there is a breakfast club. I have no family locally so the childcare issue may prevent me from being able to take up any job offers.

ReallyTired · 14/03/2014 10:57

I completely agree. My daughter's school has an excellent afterschool club, but is is ridicolously over subscribed.

Afterschool clubs are restricted by excessive legistation. For example schools have to have same space requirements and staff ratios as a day nursery that caters for three years. I feel that the ratio of staff for school children could be relaxed without children suffering. (ie. the ratio and space requriements should be the same as a reception class with 1 adult to 15 children children) In fact children would benefit as staff would be allowed to provide age appriopate activities. (Ie. learning through play is not appriopiate for an older child.)

Our school uses the dining room and the nursery playground. Surely they could cope with more than 24 children at breakfast club in a dining room designed for a 100 children? If space is really an issue then surely it should be possible to use an extra classroom. It is madness that two TAs can look after and education a class of 30 for a whole day, but are 3 TAs are not allowed to babysit more than 24 children.