to think that this country needs to improve wraparound care for school age children

[PontOffelPock]

There is rightly a lot of focus at the moment on the cost of pre-school childcare.

However, for us at least, the real killer has been the lack of decent, affordable wrap around care for school-age DCs. Its nigh on impossible to find an available childminder near our school to do the pick-ups, there is no breakfast/after-school club, and we both have an hour commute, so we are increasingly reliant on family. The holiday club we enrolled our DCs in is very expensive. I wonder how on earth other parents who both work full time (and one parent isn't a teacher) manage when school hours are 9-3 plus all the holidays.

AIBU to think that this needs some focus so that parents are able to work full-time if they need to?

Breakfast clubs, after school clubs, holiday clubs - when are the poor little scraps ever at home?

Breakfast clubs, after school clubs, holiday clubs - when are the poor little scraps ever at home?

Breakfast clubs, after school clubs, holiday clubs - when are the poor little scraps ever at home?

Breakfast clubs, after school clubs, holiday clubs - when are the poor little scraps ever at home?

If an after school club is on site then there are certainly staff around in the morning before school. Very few teachers leave on the dot of three.

That's because they're working!!

Tigermoll - Even when not in those parents usually take their children to activities most nights eg swimming, gymnastics, rainbows etc. I dont know many that go home after school every night.

You could set up a breakfast or after school club at your school

"

Again our after school club staff are qualified to degree or post graduate level (EYP)
"

That is a over kill. A couple of experienced TA with an NVQ level 2 can run an after school club effectively. Children don't need education at an after school club. They have had their education in school. They just need to be baby sat until their parents have finished work. We are only talking about a couple of hours. It is not a day nursery where children spend ten hours a day.

Children need to be kept warm, happy, to do their homework and have some fun. They do not need their development tracked according to the EYFS. They do not need education professionals as such. The children have had their education at school. Children need a mixture directed activities and free play.

I am sure that other countries do not have ratios of 1 to 8 for after school or breakfast clubs.

Tigermole, a lot of dc wouldn't have a home if their parents couldn't work and put them in childcare. Staying at home is lovely but it doesn't put food on the table.

Everyone is still paid minimum wage so its better having the best qualifications you can get reallytired

Both my parents worked full time, and I remember an endless round of play groups, holiday schemes, babysitters, foreign students, and being passed around acquaintances like a troublesome parcel. I genuinely wonder why the two of them bothered having kids.

after reading these threads ,I cant believe how lucky we are! we have two purpose built after school clubs that also do breakfast club and full time holiday care including inset days these cater to the two primary schools, the nurseries also do wraparound care for upto 11 year olds(3 of them) and I see lots of childminders at the gates doing pick ups and drop offs, I thought everywhere had this provision , what an eye opener! no wonder you all have to give up work once they go to school.

Here's what happens in out school. The breakfast club and after school club provides care from 8-9am and until 6 in the evenings. The classroom assistants in our school were all having their hours cut, also those assigned to individual children didnt have huge amount of hours. Parents set up committe to run this facility. Assistants work in it. Its £3 an hour for a child. Non profit, money goes into wages, buying snack and any resources.

I would encourage any parent group to look into setting up something like this.

My parents also work tigermoll and I didnt feel like that. If that was your family dynamic they would of been like that however many hours they chose to work.

I night add that in my sil area , though it has a kids club and holiday provision, it closes for 3 week of the summer hols and all the xmas hols! what is that about!

Totally agree with you, Reallytired. Are Ofsted still inspecting after school provision? Last time I looked they were. Bloody ridiculous. I am fortunte not to need after school care but if I did all I'd want is a few adults who had common sense to keep an eye on my kids playing and who would be willing to try and help with homework if asked, just the same as their grandparent might be. I don't need anyone to educate my kids or "develop" them. Just to keep an eye on them playing or watching telly while they relax after school.

I wouldn't even want the food that our after school club insists on providing (and presumably charging for in their overall costs): they give them stuff like hot dogs or beans on toast, meaning the kids aren't then hungry for a proper family meal at home. I'd be happy for parents to be asked to provide an after school snack in the same way a packed lunch does at lunchtime eg a piece of fruit, crackers etc

An army of caring Nanna or Dinner lady types alongside some energetic young uni PE students is what is needed in this country. Make sure a couple of them have a first aid certificate and that there are adequately safeguarding procedures in place and job done. Not a jot of educational development is needed. Just a job lot of good old fashioned common sense.

I've just had to look for a new CM and the ones round me all seem to work term time only. I don't get it, their entire clientele must be teachers? I don't live in some weird teacher only area I don't think! There was one I could find who had space, luckily I liked her, but I really don't know where all these term time only jobs are. The school near us has wrap around care in term time but no holiday club, which again doesn't seem to make sense. Surely most people who need one will need the other? And I think must make it harder for the children to settle in ? Mine are preschoolers so maybe that's not such an issue once they are at school, but i would have thought it would be better for them to go to a holiday club somewhere they are used to especially for half term.

Add special needs to that wonderful mix and it's nigh on impossible....

There are reasons I have had to become a parent carer

I dont understand why there is such poor provision on mumsnet. It seems most on here live in affluent areas. I live in a normal town with quite a lot of deprevation. Our private after school club has degree qualified staff as I stated, home cooked full meal every night eg lasangne,roast, chunky veg soup with crusty bread, spag bol etc. They can do all homework, reading there. Its open 51 weeks a year and all trips are included eg zoo, funhouse, park, woods etc. I dont understand how this is possible in a not very well off area but it seems like none of London and the South East can manage it?

I'd have thought that those childminders near you are term-time only because that suits them-as parents who want to spend the holidays just with their own child?

YANBU. We wouldn't have managed without the fab afterschool club when ds was at primary, and the linked holiday club.

We are very fortunate in that our employers allow flexible working, which meant that ds was only in AFC twice a week - the other days we took it in turns to collect and made up the hours by getting in early/working late.

One of us giving up work, even if financially viable, would not have been an option.

Thinking about childcare availability 5+ years ahead before trying for a baby is absurd btw. I hope nobody does this.

I wish there was done kind of pick up service at my kids school, like a pooled after school club.

I have seen it is possible in other areas:
www.wiseowlsclub.co.uk/after_club.html

Instead we are stuck with no breakfast club and an after school club that ends at 17.45. The kids enjoy it but they only get a snack there and it is a real rush to get home and limits work for me and dh.

Childcare has and always probably will be expensive and sometimes scarce in this country. Whilst I don't agree this is how it should be, it is the way it is and we'll have to learn to live with it the best we can. My older work colleagues envy maternity leave of 39 weeks when they had to make do with 12. My own parents hardly ever saw each other as they worked opposite shifts for years to manage the childcare between them. This was 30 odd years ago. People have been doing whatever they needed to make it work for decades; it's not a new issue.

We knew that childcare would be a major factor for us when we began thinking of starting a family. We chose to move 50 miles away from our friends and family for work and to be able to afford a decent roof over our heads and we knew in doing this that we'd lose any form of family support though to be frank, it was never going to be our main option as I don't think its fair to rely on my parents to do that all the time. Every decision we've made since has been based on our childcare needs more or less; where we work (I could make a lot more money doing what I do in London but I took a job closer to home so we could make it work), when we work - my husband retrained and switched jobs so he didn't have to work extreme shifts and finally where we lived was very carefully chosen so that we could access schools with good wrap around care and holiday provision. There was an excellent school within chucking distance to our old house but it was no use to us as it has no breakfast or after school club provision so we moved to be in catchment for a school that was and in doing so swapping to a smaller house . Everyone I know has had to make sacrifices to accommodate their children.

Yes there are things that the government and powers that be could do to make life for working parents a lot easier, no question about it but I am firmly of the opinion that if you choose to have children, then the responsibility lies with you to look after them, in whatever form that may be.

Thats what ours is like littleducks all year round.My dds go to one like that. On top of that though there are about 10 schools and the vast majority of those have breakfast and after school clubs. There are also 2 other private clubs and a holiday playscheme. There are also more childminders than you know what to do with.

I don't want people running after school clubs to be on the minimum wage either. I am sure its possible to pay after school club leaders slightly better than the minimum wage and still keep costs affordable. I would pay the leaders £8 to £12 an hour depending on the part of the country, qualfications and experience. If the ratios were relaxed then this would be affordable.

I suspect that many after school club leaders struggle to keep up with the totally and utterly pointless paper work of the EYFS. If we scrapped 90% of the paperwork then I am sure that an after school club could be run well with more relaxed ratio.

georgesdino I assume that you must live in an area of high unemployment. It is unusual to get a graduate on the minimum wage.