To think people without fertility problems should not give advice to those with fertility problems however well meant it is?

[Moonfacesmother]

My heavily pregnant friend came over last night. She does not know we have been ttc for 18 months and have had one failed ivf cycle. However she told me about a close friend of hers who I also know although not very well.

My heavily pregnant friend (hpf) said that she said to this poor woman who has been ttc for four years and is about to start ivf the following:

'I said to her it's probably because you need to relax. Book yourself a dirty weekend and get drunk and I bet you'll get pregnant. I wasn't bothered if I got pregnant or not and I got pregnant first cycle so I think if you just don't worry about it it will happen.'

This is exactly why I have not told people about our problems! I was somewhat annoyed on behalf of our mutual acquaintance.

Aibu to think that people should just not say anything like this?! If you've been ttc for 4 years it's unlikely to require you to 'just relax.' My hpf spoke as though she was some sort of fertility guru.

[Kandypane]

Even if relaxing does work for some, the majority it won't. So please stop making excuses for saying it. It will not help the person you are saying it to, they will have heard it smiling times before, and you will possibly upset them because it kind of insinuates it's their fault they aren't up the duff.

End of.

If you want to be a good friend how about telling people you're sorry, you know it's shit, you're there for them.

Or, you know, just ignore this and carry on doling out your advice because you are "entitled to an opinion".

[Kandypane]

• a million not smiling !

[Kewcumber]

Considerable fertility issues = unprotected sex for 10 years, clomid for 6 months, injectables for another three, IUI (I think 6 attempts from memory), in the middle of which was a CIN3 abnormal cells scare which had gone too far for laser treatment and had to be treated with a cone biopsy, then a hysterosalpingogram resulted in a polyp and a fibroid being removed then IVF - first attempt resulted in a hemorrhage in the middle of my 2ww which resulted in me having to inject progestone into a muscle (consistency of olive oil) daily, hyperstimulation on second attempt meant 30 follicles over 2.5cms (they didn;t bother counting the smaller ones) resulting in 1 egg which didn't work, followed by a long tortuous cycle (because of the previous hyperstimulation) when the sperm dies before fertilising my precious few eggs at which point I admitted defeat.

Telling me to relax and that would do the trick at any point in that 15 year period would have resulted in a sharp poke in the eye.

And you might think ikea that you understand IVF because your DH has told you what it was like for him but when you've had three rounds of horrendous IVF come back and talk to me then.

It's a bit like me explaining to people that I understand what its like to have cancer because my mum had it and the trick to recovering like she did is to be positive. In that situation I'd deserve my own poke in my eye. Because whilst I'm entitled to my opinion wannabe, voicing it isn't always the right or kind thing to do.

[Kandypane]

FWIW I think people should talk more about fertility problems. It's a very lonely journey and you need peoples support. It would also help with the general ignorance people have of these issues.

[Kewcumber]

Floozey - you might think you are going to know how people are going to deal with serious stuff like infertility but you'd be surprised ( I was and I told very few people).

Added to which you're not at you most rational during IVF.

[Finickynotfussy]

YANBU, I fell out with a friend over this as she kept banging on about relaxing, although she had done IVF successfully and we had entirely different fertility issues to her and her DH. How hard is it to just say 'gosh, that does sound difficult?' Apparently very!

[roadwalker]

If relaxing was crucial then fertility treatment would never work, it is far from relaxing
YANBU OP
One friend said to me 'don't worry you won't always feel broody by the time you get to 40 the feeling will be gone'
She had 4 children! How could she know how I would feel at 40

[hunreeeal]

People should really only talk about their problems to those they know well enough to know they'll give a sensible response.

When it comes to the topic of fertility, people do surprise you. People you thought were good friends can be way off the mark and come out with the most inane, hurtful comments. Yet some people you don't know well may say exactly the most helpful things.

[Pipbin]

YANBU: relaxing is not going to unblock my fucking tubes is it.
And after 2 fail IVF cycles if I hear one more person telling me to relax, or that their friend was about to start IVF and got up the duff I reserve the right to slap them.

[AngelaDaviesHair]

With some people it is probably just a well-meaning, thoughtless attempt at delivering comfort. But with others I wonder if it is a silencing tactic. Advice like that often feels like dismissal/minimising.

[Treaclepot]

I work with a lot of couples trying to conceive as part of my job and can find it very hard to know what to say, part of my role is to help improve their chances of conceiving which means giving them advice that they usually already know, but for whatever reason are struggling to follow. The main ones that people can do to eh their chances are to lose weight, but relaxation is also an issue. Mainly this advice is given to people with unexplained infertility, as for others it will make no difference dependent on their problem.

Outside of work I would NEVER give any advice to those trying to conceive unless they specifically ask. Even in a clinical environment it is really hard.

[CheeryGiraffe]

YADNBU. Just because someone has got pregnant, carried a baby to term and delivered it does not make them a fertility expert. Not that you'd know it from some of the tripe people like to spout. They do it to make themselves feel better - they've imparted their wise words to the poor infertile person, and they can now go on their merry way safe in the knowledge that they've 'fixed' the problem.

All those saying just relax - for every couple who get pregnant after relaxing, there will be hundreds more who don't, and whilst they're trying in vain to relax they're becoming increasingly stressed because the relaxing isn't working. Instead of being so insensitive and flippant try to think about the big picture.

One of my favourite comments is "having children isn't the be all and end all, you know. I often wish I didn't have mine." Gee, now you've said that I feel so much better.

[NoCupcakesOrCocktails]

YADNBU!

I've been ttc for nearly 5 years now and am on to my second IVF cycle. I can't even count the amount of insensitive comments we have had to deal with along the way. I don't often challenge people on it as I do realise that it's mainly because they don't know what to say but I always respond if someone tells me to "just relax". I find it the most patronising hurtful thing to say. There are some really interesting research articles that have concluded that stress can impact on fertility but only in the sense that it reduces peoples sex drives thus reducing the chances of conception.

I have unexplained infertility so I suppose technically there is still a chance I could get pregnant naturally but I feel it is unlikely after so long ttc (I can assure you for the first two years I was pretty "relaxed"). In fact the only time I've ever got pregnant is during my first IVF cycle but I had an early miscarriage.

For me the best support has been when my friends have acknowledged how truly shit it is and wish me luck.

[hunreeeal]

For me the best support has been when my friends have acknowledged how truly shit it is and wish me luck.

Yes! That's simple but so helpful. No stupid platitudes necessary.

[pancakesfortea]

You get this with other medical conditions too. I can't count the number of people who have told me that their auntie's arthritis was cured by a swim in the dead sea / eating mung beans / whatever.

But yes, I had infertility issues too, and crappy advice from well meaning friends, and its much more emotive and hurtful than home spun cures for my creaky swollen hands,

[Devora]

It's terribly easy to accidentally be an arse when a friend is sharing their problems. I shudder to recall it, but I do have a teensy little memory of sharing some fondly held opinions about how all the money going into IVF should be diverted into counselling to help people come to terms with childlessness.

The heavens remembered that when I started my own fertility journey...

Whether or not you think relaxation helps conception (and my understanding of the evidence is that EXTREME stress - e.g. being a prisoner of war - may inhibit ovulation, but for the vast majority of us it's not a factor) doesn't really matter. The thing to remember is that when a friend shares an awful experience (bereavement, cancer, infertility) it is so very tempting to instantly leap in to 'cheer them up' by offering them some hope.

99 times out of 100, they will have heard it all before. (Does anyone seriously think that a woman facing IVF will not have heard the relaxation thing, or considered the adoption option, or tried to think positively about what life without children can bring?). There is almost certainly nothing you can suggest that they have not considered already, so don't suggest anything.

Learn to listen, and to ask open questions: "How are you feeling about that?", "Have you got all the information you need about your options?", "What can your friends do to help you at this time?"

[Devilforasideboard]

YANBU OP, and I also want to wish you all the luck in the world from someone who has been in your shoes and got the tshirt (and more importantly the baby)

[SolomanDaisy]

It is absolutely the worst thing to say, partly because of its blood pressure raising anti relaxation properties. And the anecdotes about skiing and miraculously getting pregnant are anecdotes, you have no idea whether being relaxed actually helped. I was lucky enough to get pregnant naturally after four years TTC, it doesn't mean I have any miraculous insight into what we'd been doing wrong for the previous four years. Ikea, you sound spectacularly insensitive.

[LifeisFuckingGreat]

I've been in the same situation as many of you, infertility and recurrent miscarriage with no good end result.
You can tell so much from people's responses. Those who listen and recognise the difficulty of the journey have been the most supportive.

I remember each and every person who has said to me to relax and you'll get pregnant or not to worry about miscarriages, they're really common, most women don't even know they're having them. These comments are offensive and not reassuring in the slightest and my friendships have ultimately changed with people who say things like that.

I've had a brain infection recently which has left me disabled. You wouldn't believe what people have said to me - stop eating wheat / drinking fizzy drinks and you'll get better immediately. Shut the fuck up ignoramus. No I won't. Ignorant advice is much worse than no advice.

[AngelsWithSilverWings]

I've not heard the 'watching comedy programmes can help your IVF work' one before!

If that really is true I can't understand why I don't have four kids called Monica , Chandler , Ross and Rachel.

Friends box sets got me through my four failed cycles of assisted conception! I watched them to keep my mind off of everything.

They didn't help so much when I was going through the adoption process and watched Monica adopt twin babies in what seemed to take three weeks!

I had to listen to various variations of the just relax advice many times over the 10 years I was trying to become a mum.

The other bit of advice was to just have sex all the time! What on earth did they think we were doing?

Good luck OP , I know it's really hard and I wish you a happy outcome.

[paxtecum]

But all you women who are telling Ikea to shut up because you are being offended are here on AIBU.

Maybe this thread should never have been in AIBU.

It is an open forum and all opinions are useful.
It wouldn't be good just to have the Woe is Me posts.

Best wishes to you all.

[Kewcumber]

I don;t understand your post paxte - I'd say the same whatever section this was posted on. I wasn't telling her to "shut up" I was suggesting that given just about every woman on here who has been through IVF has said how annoying/irritating/painful such mindless platitudes are that she might want to reconsider her helpful advice which she apparently offers.

all opinions are useful but not it seems the advice of those who been through it saying "please don't say that". Of you can carry on with it knowing its going to offend 95% of people who you will say it to.

Opinions are like animals "all equal but some are more equal than others." (apologies to GEaorge Orwell for out of context quote)

[ohfourfoxache]

Yanbu at all - for the most part it isn't helpful to say "try to relax" (although if a couple have been ttc for 3 months then it might actually be quite valid advice!)

However, just because someone doesn't have fertility problems, it doesn't mean that they are not able to offer advice. Now I don't know whether we have a fertility problem or not, it's not an option I feel comfortable exploring ATM. But having worked in the field for more years than I wish to admit, I do know what tests should happen when, what the NHS funding arrangements are and, quite often, what treatment is likely to be offered.

So perhaps the question shouldn't be based around people who do not have fertility problems offering advice, but rather around well meaning, ignorant fuckwits offering advice.

I've not rtft btw - so if this view has already been offered I can merely add my support!