To think people without fertility problems should not give advice to those with fertility problems however well meant it is?

[Moonfacesmother]

My heavily pregnant friend came over last night. She does not know we have been ttc for 18 months and have had one failed ivf cycle. However she told me about a close friend of hers who I also know although not very well.

My heavily pregnant friend (hpf) said that she said to this poor woman who has been ttc for four years and is about to start ivf the following:

'I said to her it's probably because you need to relax. Book yourself a dirty weekend and get drunk and I bet you'll get pregnant. I wasn't bothered if I got pregnant or not and I got pregnant first cycle so I think if you just don't worry about it it will happen.'

This is exactly why I have not told people about our problems! I was somewhat annoyed on behalf of our mutual acquaintance.

Aibu to think that people should just not say anything like this?! If you've been ttc for 4 years it's unlikely to require you to 'just relax.' My hpf spoke as though she was some sort of fertility guru.

[PotatoesPastaAndBread]

I think in future I will try reverse psychology and when advice givers have a crying baby I will ask "have you tried feeding him? Have you tried winding him? Maybe he's tired. My friend had a crying baby abd when she put him to bed he stopped"

[ItsAFuckingVase]

Grrrr! I hate this.

I went to the doctor a little while back to have my implant removed as we're on the waiting list for ICSI. She took it upon herself to give me the best advice she could, which was to relax. Oh and apparently we haven't been trying for very long so should probably stay natural for a while.

We hadn't been trying at all, but unless my DH's sperm develop the ability to teleport themselves from his testes then all the natural trying in the world won't produce anything. Silly bitch.

And only our best friends know we're on the waiting list, but a few of our friends are going through IVF at the moment and so I experience people telling them to just relax. It gives me rage!

[PotatoesPastaAndBread]

I am being mean. I know ppl are trying to help. But sympathise and listen, that's all.

[HandragsNGladbags]

Ikea, in her defence, is giving her experience after she had suffered considerable fertility issues.

[paxtecum]

Ok, we all have our opinions.
Years ago, before fertility treatments existed, many childless couples who adopted later had their own babies.

[paxtecum]

Vase: At the risk of giving you more rage, has your DH tried acupuncture for his sperm problem?

[namechangesforthehardstuff]

Considerable fertility issues? ! ! ! I cannot be arsed to RTFT again but hasn't she got three children, one of whom was conceived while bfing? THAT'S PRETTY FERTILE I'D SAY.

[bigfuckoffpie]

I went without contraception for years but wasnt really trying, then had a natural ectopic. Then i had cycles and cycles of ovulation monitoring, then IVF, which, up until the sixth cycle, only resulted in another ectopic and my remaining tube being removed, and an early miscarriage. On the sixth cycle, the last using a set of frozen embryos, I finally had my son.

So I'm pretty relaxed now, not having any fallopian tubes, but weirdly haven't fallen pregnant. Presumably because relaxing or going skiing an't magically teleport our gametes around my body, or resolve any other number of actual medical issues other people face.

I still get asked when we're having DC2, both by people who know and don't know about our history.

Yanbu'

[TestingTestingWonTooFree]

I've heard the terrible-tried for ages-about to start IVF-boozing/shagging/skiing holiday-bingo BFP anecdote too. Maybe people who ski are more open about conception than hill walkers?!

I did relaxed TTC for a year ish, then tried harder for another year, then had investigations for 6 months, then started treatment and got pregnant. I think it was too quick for the treatment to have an effect, and for me it was just trying for two and a half years was enough time for it to finally work. I would have thought that that's what happens to some of the couples who conceive just before starting IVF. Chances are a lot of them will be on month 18+ by then.

I think "just relax" is as helpful as the people who tell you to "smile" in the street.

[hels71]

The other "helpful" comment that gets me is the one about how once you have had successful IVF that you will easily get pregnant naturally afterwards.....

[mineofuselessinformation]

YANBU.
I still have clear and very upsetting memories of a gynae consultant telling me that the best way to get pregnant was to have a bottle if wine and put some music on.
It was over twenty years ago. I'd still like to smack him in his stupid, thoughtless face.
(I do have children now, long story. At the time I was desperate to do ANYTHING to have a baby.)

[Happiestinwellybobs]

I had the "just relax" advice. I was relaxed for the first three years when we stopped using contraception, and didn't get pregnant.

I also had the "have the pregnant chair" in the office. I still sit on said chair, but never pregnant.

I also got, "get a pet; your maternal instincts will kick in and you'll fall pregnant". Snoring dog is actually next to me but funnily enough no baby appeared!

And when we announced we were adopting, got the "oh you'll definitely fall pregnant after you've adopted" erm....nope!

I do think sometimes people feel the need to say something so say the wrong thing, and other times people just don't think at all.

[Enjoyingmycoffee]

Oh the relax thing is just ridiculous. Offensive actually.
I have two children, and both times have been through periods of intense stress.
My dearest friend remains childless after 4 years if trying. For the first two, relaxed, happy, optimistic. It didn't happen. The last two, increasing stress and unhappiness. And it's not happened.
I simply say, I'm so sorry but there's still certainly still hope.

[bigfuckoffpie]

Sorry, some characters got eaten from my post!

[ikeaismylocal]

So often people recommend things that are not scientifically proven, if you read any thread on mumsnet where a parent is looking for advice about a baby who is crying lots, has reflux, has a flat head, won't sleep doesn't feed well some helpful person will come on and suggest craniopathy ( sp?) as far as I know there is no proof this works but people don't get offended that something unproven was recommended.

On this thread at least 2 Drs have suggested relaxing or said that relaxing can help, are we going to just ignore Drs now, Drs who work with infertile patients everyday and who have studied for years.

There is research that shows stress has a detrimental effect on fertility, it isn't entirely anecdotal evidence.

Ofcourse relaxing isn't going to work for everyone, IVF iui, Clomid, icsi doesn't work for everyone, there is no one size fits all cure for fertility but surely it's worth a try?

People who suggest relaxing are not in my opinion being malicious or rude, they care enough to offer the possibly very limited advice they have.

[ItsAFuckingVase]

He has no vas deferens so there is no possible way for his sperm to leave his testicles! He has CF and this is the case with most males with CF. I suppose we're fortunate in a perverse way in that we know the situation with fertility without having to try naturally for a given length of time and we have just superb support from his CF team.

[TheFabulousIdiot]

The trouble is, 'get drunk', 'relax', 'go on holday' and 'I had a friend once who stopped trying and had twins' is NOT advice.

It's anecdotal rubbish which does not help people get pregnant.

I would think the one thing worth learning from this discussion, ikeaismylocal, is that your words of 'advice' are quite hurtful for most people with fertility issues and so therefore it is better to check yourself instead of insisting that you blindly persist with saying things you now know are hurtful.

[Oneforthemummy]

I'm with potatoes - no matter how well-meaning the advice is, all it does is make you feel like more of a failure than you already feel. "Why can't I relax enough to get pg? Everyone else can relax. So, I'm infertile and uptight?"
It is a difficult situation - there are very few things that someone who has children or is pg can say to someone who is having fertility problems that will not come across as patronising, smug or hurtful. And that's no-one's fault, it's just the way it is. Being infertile or having conception problems makes you hypersensitive to anything pg/baby related.

[paxtecum]

Vase: Best wishes to you both for the future.

[georgieporgie1]

YADNBU
I know they mean well, but saying that is guaranteed to drive you crazy.

As someone who had fertility problems, can I suggest Agnus Castus to anyone who hasn't already tried it? It is so cheap from Boots/wherever (compared to ivf!), and worked for us when ivf didn't (obviously won't work for everyone, but just spreading the word as just maybe it might for someone - what do you have to lose?)

And no, I don't work for anyone producing it! Good luck with your ttc, hope you have some luck soon...

[ikeaismylocal]

Considerable fertility issues? ! ! ! I cannot be arsed to RTFT again but hasn't she got three children, one of whom was conceived while bfing? THAT'S PRETTY FERTILE I'D SAY.

Do you know something that I don't? I have one child and one fetus ( that we know off)

We both have fertility issues that I outlined in a previous post. The years of ttc don't just get forgotten when you have a baby. My dp didn't do multiple rounds of IVF justfor laughs, I didn't have painful gynecological investigations because I didn't have anything better to do.

[catcalledjessica]

I know it's anecdotal but I do seem to know a lot of people who had fertility treatment or adopted, then conceived no2 without any problems, without trying.

Is there something in the 'relax' advice? (N.B. I wouldn't dream of saying so to a struggling friend!)

[Trooperslane]

Ikea - wow. I'm glad I didn't have you on my contact list. Exactly ehat this thread is about

[Trooperslane]

Mrssmith . 8 years for us too. We were successful eventually but vvvv old. Hoping you get where you are content to be soon.

It's totally shit.

[Burren]

YANBU in the least. And the advice to never tell anyone your problems or you are inviting advice that is anecdotal, ill-conceived though well-meaning at best and ignorant and offensive at worst, is mad. You cannot be held responsible for other people's inability to just nod and sympathise.

And it's not restricted to fertility issues by any means. A friend of mine with an adopted daughter was regularly driven mad by well-meaning acquaintances with biological children who kept telling her that her daughter's considerable attachment issues were common to all toddlers: 'Oh, mine did that all the time!' Etc etc. often followed by 'But she can't remember her real mother, so she shouldn't have any problems.'