To think people without fertility problems should not give advice to those with fertility problems however well meant it is?

[Moonfacesmother]

My heavily pregnant friend came over last night. She does not know we have been ttc for 18 months and have had one failed ivf cycle. However she told me about a close friend of hers who I also know although not very well.

My heavily pregnant friend (hpf) said that she said to this poor woman who has been ttc for four years and is about to start ivf the following:

'I said to her it's probably because you need to relax. Book yourself a dirty weekend and get drunk and I bet you'll get pregnant. I wasn't bothered if I got pregnant or not and I got pregnant first cycle so I think if you just don't worry about it it will happen.'

This is exactly why I have not told people about our problems! I was somewhat annoyed on behalf of our mutual acquaintance.

Aibu to think that people should just not say anything like this?! If you've been ttc for 4 years it's unlikely to require you to 'just relax.' My hpf spoke as though she was some sort of fertility guru.

[neversleepagain]

Aibu to think that people should just not say anything like this?! If you've been ttc for 4 years it's unlikely to require you to 'just relax.'

My sister and her DH tired to conceive for 4 years and nothing happened, not one BFP. They started to look into IVF.

He got a new job abroad, she gave up her stressful job and they moved into a beautiful cottage in the countryside. She got pregnant within 3 months. So sometimes a change of lifestyle and relaxing is what some couples need.

[paxtecum]

I think Ikea is giving excellent advice and I am surprised that her words are construed to be 'hurtful'.

[ProlificPenguin]

So because she is pregnant she can't have an opinion?

I have friends who TTC for years, failed two IVF cycles then relaxed, got pissed, loads of sex and got pregnant so maybe your darling pregnant friend was referring to RL examples such as this or actually know the same couple I do? Incidentally have two children now, neither via IVF and will tell everyone that they meet this.

[Kandypane]

Ydnbu. The positive anecdotes of "just relaxing" are in the very very very small minority. Please please people don't say this to people TTC. For one, they would have heard it all before from some other idiot!

[ikeaismylocal]

You cannot be held responsible for other people's inability to just nod and sympathise.

If you just want some sympathetic nodding just buy a nodding dog.

If you want the reaction of a person prepare yourself for the possibility that they may not say exactly what you hoped they would say. If that person is an otherwise good friend/kind person don't take it as a personal insult or malicious comment.

[paxtecum]

Neversleepagain: I think modern life is so stressful and so busy, often with no down time at all, that our bodies don't allow us to get pregnant because there is no spare time left to have a baby and care for it.

[Kandypane]

[Moonfacesmother]

She can have an opinion, even if she had said "maybe a break would do you good?" That would have been more tactful than "relax, I wasn't bothered so I got pregnant quickly." Which is basically what she said. And telling someone who is desperate for a baby that you "weren't that bothered" but got pregnant first cycle is extremely extremely insensitive in my opinion.

[TheFabulousIdiot]

No one thinks it's malicious, just dumb. Even dumber to carry on doing something when you know it's likely to cause hurt.

[TillyTellTale]

Surely telling people to relax is as practical as saying "as long as you don't think about pink elephants" it'll be all right? Point being, you'll be unable to relax and getting stressed about it/constantly thinking of pink elephants?

So why do people say this?!

[hunreeeal]

Each person giving this "helpful" advice thinks they are the only person to come out with this nonsense, don't they? But usually the infertile person who's heard it all and tried it all, has heard the same "advice" over and over and over again. And it hasn't worked. Would you tell someone with some other physical condition to "just relax" and they'd miraculously be cured?

[TheBody]

there's dumb and unforgivably insensitive coupled with dumb.

yanbu op.

[ikeaismylocal]

I taking a break from ttc is very relaxing and fairly easy to do.

Ttc was the most fantastic contraceptive for us. If we get to a point where our family is complete we'll just start tracking my cycle and only having sex when I ovulate. Guaranteed no pregnancy.

[TheFabulousIdiot]

How long did you take a break for Ikea? The overwhelming opinion I got from others in the same boat as me was how impossible it was to really take a break. Because even if you only have sex once a month and stop 'trying' for most people there is always that hope then disappointment when your period arrives.

I used to talk about how the only real way to take a break would be to go back n the pill.

Why would you persist in telling people to relax when you have been to,d by so many that it can be very hurtful and annoying?

[surromummy]

Hmm a understandably heated topic.

The problem with ttc is for everyone, there are only 12 tiny chances a year to conceive, and by tiny I mean the window of opportunity being so small each time too. A year does feel like forever, so does 2,3,4 etc etc but in reality, in a year you've only had 12 tiny chances, each chance relying on so many things....your dps sperm, your egg quality, your hormone's, your vaginal ph, etc etc each one needing to be exactly right in order for conception to happen.

There are obviously a lot of people out there who will never conceive without medical help, but equally there are a lot who in time, albeit sometimes years, will eventually fall pregnant.
I am also one who thinks stress/caring about it plays a part in some cases I have personally known lots who had either given up after years of trying or who had started to begin ivf and naturally fallen pregnant however I would never say this to anyone in real life! sometimes people need to learn to say nothing rather than offend other people.

[Grandemama]

I think sometimes people do not know what to say and end up saying something hurtful without meaning to be mean.

In my experience, once I was not stressed as I able to conceive, but then I know LOTS of women in my family who, relaxed or not were never able to have any children, because it depends on the cause of the fertility issues.

And yes, I have also heard from a cancer survivor that what helped her was her positive attitude to life. I don't agree with this as I had, like most people, relatives dying from cancer regardless of their attitude to life. But who am I to tell her otherwise?

[TheFabulousIdiot]

Didn't it used to make you feel furious when other people told yo to relax Ikea?

Sure
Y you can at least understand why it would be hurtful for you to say the same to other people.

You were lucky, after testing every month for two years and about to have IVF. You were just lucky. It still doesn't mean that telling other people to relax won't make them furious too.

[wannaBe]

So, the only people allowed to comment on fertility issues are those who are still not pregnant and anyone who has had diagnosed fertility issues and managed to fall pregnant naturally after giving up is just spouting rubbish and should keep quiet as well? I think that in itself is pretty offensive actually.

The fact is that many people do give up ttc and then fall pregnant naturally. And there is definite evidence that some people who have to have help conceiving the first time round are more likely to fall pregnant naturally afterwards because of the impact of pregnancy and the hormones that releases on the female reproductive system. But obviously that only counts in certain instances.

The problem with fertility is that there are so many reasons why a couple might struggle to conceive, and for some e.g. where a woman has no tubes or a man has no sperm or no means of the sperm leaving the testes there is no other option than IVF. But for many others IVF is a last resort and there are other treatments and options which can be tried first before embarking down the IVF route. But even in a healthy woman ivf has limited success (approximately 30% success rate) and so even if a couple has to go down the route of IVF there's every chance that it won't work. But if a couple has a condition which makes conception limited rather than impossible, then it is still possible to conceive naturally even if IVF fails.
Fertility treatment is on the increase, and I don't think it's unreasonable to look at why that might be. Our (society's) increase in alcohol/additives in food/ change in lifestyle to a more stressful one perhaps? Or perhaps it has to do with the fertility industry itself. 30 years ago women who were able to get pregnant had no options but to just keep trying, and for a vast majority of those women it did happen eventually. But now we are in a society where testing and drugs and treatments and IVF exists, and suddenly we are encouraging women to become stressed about it if they've been trying for more than a year and demanding treatment because they want a baby now.


So is it that infertility is on the increase, or is it in fact that our patience to get pregnant is on the decrease, and that actually for many women the answer is just to try a bit longer. Perhaps our bodies are actually designed to take longer to fall pregnant. In New Zealand for instance, you won't be referred until you have been ttc for at least two years.

So while I wouldn't advocate telling a woman who has been ttc for four years to book a dirty weekend and it will happen, I do think the fertility industry (I am referring to everything, the OPK sticks/early pregnancy tests/thermometers etc right through to IVF) is big business and we are almost conditioning women into obsessing about pregnancy and looking for issues from the outset.

Oh, and I speak as someone who ttc for well over a year for my first and then six years unsuccessfully for a second...

[PotatoesPastaAndBread]

I don't care WHO is giving the advice (infertile, fertile, whatever). It's WHAT they say. And it isn't just about fertility. When I was a teenager my grandad died, my mum's dad. I remember her getting a card from my then boyfriend's mum which didn't express sympathy, it talked about how she had felt when her own parents had died. I know it's hard to know what to say sometimes, but in that case, express sympathy and listen. Don't make it about you, your friends, your experience.

If someone wants your advice they can and will ask for it!

And YY to the poster above who said you can't avoid talking about fertility issues because everyone seems to think it's ok to flat out ask when you plan to have kids, isn't it about time, must be thinking about it soon.... Etc.

[AngelaDaviesHair]

Any advice that comes from a place of: 'Oh stop fussing it's all perfectly simple, look I've worked it all out do this and shut up, ta dah' is unreasonable, mean and hurtful when the problem at hand is actually difficult and deeply distressing.

[namechangesforthehardstuff]

Is it unreasonable to point out that when you are actually a.pregnant, b.touting a toddler, your fertility issues might be seen to have worked out ok in the end?

Might it be thought reasonable, under those circumstances to exercise a teensy little bit of restraint, nay perhaps even humility, in your 'advice' to others? Maybe?

[TheFabulousIdiot]

I don't think many couples set off on their baby making journey thinking that they will try fertility treatment if natural conception fails. It is something that gradually creeps up on you and certainly isn't offered to most couples on a whim.

IVF is hardly an easy process, it's invasive and most people will try other things first. It certainly is the case in the uk too that you have. To wait around two years so no one is rushing into it.

'So, the only people allowed to comment on fertility issues are those who are still not pregnant and anyone who has had diagnosed fertility issues and managed to fall pregnant naturally after giving up is just spouting rubbish and should keep quiet as well? I think that in itself is pretty offensive actually.'

Of course people can comment but it is usuall the case that those with no experience will dish out the most droll and insentive advice, like 'why not just adopt' from people who have never even attempted to adopt a child themselves (and who never will).

What is baffling is why someone who has been told by several people that something is upsetting, would continue to do it and expect those who are offended to just accept it because it's just their opinion.

[5Foot5]

I think I must have been lucky when we were having IVF because I don't recall getting any of these inane comments.

However, the thing that I hated was before then, when we were ttc and had been for a while but hadn't yet gone public to anyone. My SIL at the time had had one DC and whenever we met up would always say something like "Oh so when are you two going to get moving and produce a little cousin for JJ?"

What I wanted to say was MYOFB but of course one just smiles and says something noncommittal. It always seemed, and still seems, insensitive to me to make comments like that to a couple with no children since there must be a fair chance that this is on the cards.

[FloozeyLoozey]

People should really only talk about their problems to those they know well enough to know they'll give a sensible response. People don't know what to say to problems like that. I wouldn't. I just keep most of my problems very close to my chest.