to wonder whether it is ever acceptable to shout and swear at your partner?

[snowycakes]

Genuine question. I have only been in one (10 year) relationship so want some outside perspective and am not just looking for validation!

When DP gets annoyed about things he tends to shout and swear at me, although I have told him I don't find it acceptable, and he knows it really upsets me. However, he says that I provoke him to do it and that it's a natural reaction to being wound up. I really don't like it, but is it just a part of being a couple that I should accept if I do/say something that annoys him?

I obviously do things that he doesn't like as well, and am far from being perfect.

This sounds really petty (and long sorry!), but as an example: this morning DP was really hungry by about 11am (he hadn't had breakfast) and suggested going to get takeaway pizza for lunch before he had to go to work at 2. I agreed but said that it was a bit early for lunch - and the pizza place wasn't even open at that point. The house has been a tip all week (both of our stuff) so I wanted us to do a bit of tidying up before we went. He watched TV most of the morning and then at 12 said he was going for lunch with or without me - I said I wanted to finish the tidying up I was doing for 5 minutes and then I'd be ready. He got really stroppy and started ranting about how tidying up ruined his day, there's no point in doing it as things only get messy again, he was really hungry, and he would have to rush his lunch before work, etc. So I got in the car to go with him, and asked him why he was acting like a stroppy teenager (which obviously wound him up) about having to tidy up and the fact that he hadn't had lunch before midday! He started raising his voice and ranting for ages. In between the ranting I asked him to stop shouting and swearing at me and asked why he was acting like this. He then ranted about how he wasn't shouting etc. I said that he was (he was raising his voice aggressively), and asked him to stop. He then got really angry and started properly roaring at me, swearing, saying stuff like, "Do you want a f slap?" "THIS is shouting, I didn't make you cry before so I can't have been shouting!" After he had calmed down he stuck by what he did, and said that it was my fault and I deserved it as I had wound him up, and if I had provoked anyone else like that I would have got punched.

Obviously I'm not perfect (and wasn't blameless this morning) and do things that he doesn't like or that annoy him, but I still don't think it's acceptable to have to be shouted/sworn at - however annoying you are! Am I just being hyper-sensitive? My Dad did it a lot when I was younger, to me and (less often) my Mum.

So I think what I really want to know is, is shouting and swearing something that happens in all couples when the man (or the woman) gets annoyed - or is it something that shouldn't be put up with?

DH and I have lived together over thirty years we have never sworn at each other or said 'nasty' things. We have very occasionally shouted - not loud shouting though, however we have more often been snippy or short with each other.

Any arguments are contained to the issue at hand rather than making unpleasant sweeping statements. My DH has never insulted me and I have never insulted him. I don't think a bit of controlled arguing is the end of the world but I would not tolerate the slap comment

op Everything you've said reminds me of my parents! They've been married for over thirty years and still haven't worked it out. Sometimes their marriage seems bad (ie they both complain to me about the other one and they bicker a lot), mostly they are content. I can see both sides for them. My dad is a poor communicater and also gets very stressed and, I think, depressed, which seems to make it worse. My mum is a micro-manager and often treats him like a child. Then he behaves like a child, tantrums and they both feel fustrated and cross.
I'm not sure what my advice on a relationship like this would be, based on growing up with my parents. It upsets both of them, and myself, at times. It seems very tiring. But for them, it seems they are compatible in enough other ways to make it work overall. But not without upset.

Yes, it seems like we might be incompatible. I tried to talk about it to DP today and asked him to change and not be so aggressive, as every time we need to talk about something he doesn't like he raises his voice and is quite verbally aggressive towards me, which I don't like. But he says it's not aggressive and that he won't be told how to speak or act. For me that's a problem as he's trying to turn it around to me trying to control him, but he should actually care that he way he's speaking to me upsets me.

I think as previous posters say I do talk to him like a child, but it is because he acts like one at times. If we need to get something done that affects both of us he drags his feet and won't take the initiative and make sure it gets done, so I feel like I'm forced into having to ask/remind/nag him to do things. And then he does react like a stroppy teenager. So it is probably my fault for talking to him like this. If it's just something that affects him I just let him get on with it and not get it done, and try not to micro-manage etc. but I probably do sometimes as I have got into the habit.

The thing is, I haven't met anyone in the last 10 years who I thought was really compatible (and DP and I are compatible in a lot of ways), so maybe I need to lower my sights...

Forget whatever he is like, how good he is.
He asked you if you wanted a fucking slap.
He blames you for his behaviour.
You need to move on.

Snowy. That is a sad update. I would rather be on my own than with someone who threatens to slap me. Are you mistaking compatibility with the fact that you have been together a long time and presumably have fallen into somewhat 'comfortable' habits alongside, the apparently, bad habits

YouAreTalkingRubbish Yes, I think part of it is comfortable habits and mostly being happy with the way my life is. I've never lived with anyone else (or on my own) in my adult life, so I haven't really got anything to compare it with.

But there are bigger things that we are compatible on, like values, the way we would want to bring up children, etc., which are values that I think a lot of other people don't share (although I appreciate some of this is us having compromised with each other and moved closer together in viewpoint since we've been together).

I think the main problem going forward is that DP doesn't like being 'told what to do', which means he is very resistant to changing anything. And as he points out every time we have a discussion/argument, there are things about me that he's really not happy with either.

Don't expect to change him. He won't.
He will only get worse.
Are you prepared for the worst case scenario where he actually slaps you or punches you?

OP how will this work when you have children ? Do you think they need to see his type of behaviour from your DH? You have to be a team when you have kids, and it will test the very bones of you relationship when you're both shattered from sleepless nights. How will his work? There are a million and one things you could disagree about.

He's just made you feel like it's your fault hasn't he. You have to be the one that changes.

I've been with my partner for a long time and he has never sworn at me or even talked about hitting or slapping me. And vice versa. One of us occasionally raises our voice to the other. That's normal. None of what you describe about this incident is.

I think that all of you amateur endocrinologists should bog off with your low blood sugar nonsense FGS .This bloke is a bullying pig who thinks that the earth revolves around him . ' HA ' Guess what breakfast boy ; it doesn't. DH and I have been together for 45 years . He's never sworn nor shouted at me and I've never sworn at him ; I did shout once when in transition of labour but I'm no saint . Please do not marry this manchild let alone have babies with him . Just the thought of him threatening physical violence makes me itch to call the police on your behalf. You can do so much better love .

You have told him how his behaviour impacts on you. He had told you in return he feels perfectly entitled to abuse you.

My brother is known to be grumpy when he has low blood sugar.
Grumpy. Not abusive.

You say you both want to bring up kids the same way? Hmmmm.... What is your view on shouting / swearing at a child?

I have a 3 yo and a baby. Kind of where maybe you would like to be in 5 years perhaps?

But here's the thing about 3 year olds - they are really really annoying.

And here's the thing about babies - they don't sleep.

Just pause for a minute to imagine your dh ridiculously sleep deprived and dealing with the most annoying person known to man.

If he's threatening to slap the kids it doesn't much matter if the two of you are in perfect agreement about the pros and cons of mandarin for 4 year olds.

My dh and I never shout or swear at each. I would not accept that behaviour from anyone especially my dh or dp.

He is abusive

The problem is that he interprets normal assertiveness from you as "being told what to do.

Imo that's a fundamentally immature and/or misogynistic distrotion ofnwhat you are saying to him.

That's a BIG problem

I don't live Stepford and I'm a fiery person, but DH and I have been together for 20 odd years and neither of us has ever sworn at or threatened the other.

Sorry, I'm fiered up a bit right now.....

To say you agree on how you would want to raise children suggestes you are deluding yourself. The very basis for good parenting is a respect for the other parent, and setting good examples of communication. If he sees you as causing his rages, he'l have big trouble with a tantrumming toddler or a defiant teen.

You deserve better. We all do.

I can be the mardiest cow going. My husband is as stubborn as a mule.

We've been together since I was 16 years old and can and do wind each other up something rotten.

Thankfully we both respect each other and shouting and screaming obscenities and threats at each other would not even be considered acceptable. Ever.

snowycakes the way he behaves is not normal at all. He sounds like a bully and after ten years you probably tip toe around him without even realising it.

I think that all of you amateur endocrinologists should bog off with your low blood sugar nonsense FGS

To be fair, I think there was only one.

Hope OP is all right.

But there are bigger things that we are compatible on, like values, the way we would want to bring up children, etc.

Do your values include threats of violence, misogyny, huge levels of verbal aggression and telling you your objecting to any of the above means you are "trying to control him"? The behaviours he uses are controlling of you. When you ask him to stop, he says not wanting to be controlled by him makes you controlling. Um, no.

As for the way you want to bring up children... would you like his attitudes to women taught to your daughters, or indeed sons? Would you like his approach to resolving conflicts taught to them? Words are empty. Deeds are what matter. Look at what he does, because that's how he'd childrear. And his family would reinforce that.

I'd also put a LOT of money on his smacking the kids. And you wouldn't be able to stop him. There would be nothing to stop him, whatever he says now. He would have the law and his family on his side, and if you don't like the idea, look at what he has said to you about striking people being acceptable. You really think there will be a brake on that when it's something a lot of people find socially acceptable?

Perfectstorm

You said it better than me...

The reality of having DCs is very different. All of us were expert mothers before we had kids. The theory is bullshit im afraid. Now most of us admit to muddling through as best we can.

You raise your DCs according to your personality. It's also very stressful, time consuming and exhausting. If he threatens to slap you because he's late getting a fucking pizza then I'm not sure I want to imagine how he will be after a long impossible day with a toddler.

I agree with Nomama that he may have had right to be bad-tempered, but he's an adult and should be able to express himself better. Being in a bad mood, rightly or wrongly, doesn't give anyone the right to treat someone else like crap and threaten to hit them.

That said, he said he was hungry a while before. She wanted to tidy up. She is right to get annoyed at his lack of help but seeing he wasn't helping anyway, she could have finished once he was at work.

Sounds like both parties need to work on their communication

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Sykadelic

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