to make a fuss about how much dp sees/does things for his ex-w or am I being too controlling?

[BlueLagoon1]

please be honest with me, have name changed

dp and I have lived together for a few years. He is the loveliest bloke I have ever met but with him being lovely comes the fact that he hates upsetting anyone.

His split from his ex-w was quite traumatic. She appears to have quite significant mental health issues (depression, she has attempted suicide in the past). They have a dc together and even to this day, she will call him up and say she isn't coping and dp is expected to drop everything to help out, which of course he does.

I have never given him a hard time about this as it involves children and they must always be a priority. However, i am pretty convinced that there are times when his ex does this knowing that it is ruining time for me and him (we all live in the same town so she appears to always know when we are going away). Dp and I had been planning a trip away to Europe for the Valentines day weekend but at the last minute, she threw a wobbly and dp had to take his son out for the day and we had to cancel our trip and we lost everything we had paid for the weekend.

This week, she is burying her father. She has been calling him around 30 times a day. She calls and calls until he answers. If he doesn't answer, she sends messages threatening to turn up at the house (she has done this before). When dp stands up to her a bit, she does back down but she threatens him with all sorts, it is all very unpleasant.

So on Saturday night, we had a night out planned together. He has been running around doing stuff for his ex all week and i was really looking forward to some time on our own. When it got to going home time, he bumped into a friend and wanted to stay out later (I had to get back, I have dcs and couldn't leave them any later) so I ended up going back on my own. Normally this might not bother me but I hadn't seen him all week and that morning, rather than coming out with me, he had gone with ex dw to put their old dog down together (an appointment she scheduled for the weekend rather than any day during the week when dp/she doesn't work). So for a change i threw a wobbly.

He says he doesn't get it, he says he loves me, he has to handle her this way or it will be worse for us. He says he was very sorry about Saturday but he doesn't see it the way I see it and he just wanted a few more drinks and what's the problem. For context, I work 5 days a week, he doesn't work currently, so that was the only night I could go out with him. He went out, on his own, with his mates, 3 other nights that week so it's not like he hadn't been out.

I think he has to grow a backbone and stand up for himself (and me for that matter) more otherwise me and him can't ever move forward without her shadow being there.

AIBU with that thought?

From earlier in the thread:

This week she threatened to kill me but we have no proof of that because it was verbal.

Now would possibly be a good time for the OP to discuss with the police that the ex threatened to kill her.

She is using emotional blackmail to control. I think your dp needs to give her some boundaries. He needs to be a lot firmer with her. She shouldn't have to turn to him for emotional support. If he really wants to commit to a relationship with you he needs to set some boundaries for his ex. Also if he's been cut out of the business why does he need to help?

Well she wasn't sectioned, you were right. They sent her home with some Valium.

What I found extraordinary is that we got a visit (or dp did) from I think some sort of social services team (?) who guilt tripped dp. Said look she's going through a really hard time, can you not be around more to help. I nearly fell off my chair. I said this woman has threatened to kill me! Dp said he can't do it any more. He has tried to help and he can't. He actually said to them what if he lived abroad. They said to him you have a responsibility to ds - so he told them ds can live here with us (we have always agreed that is an option) but ds doesn't want to therefore stays with his mum.

He was totally honest with them. Said she calls here all night some nights so much so we've had to unplug the landline. That she's threatened all sorts etc. They said their impression is that she wouldn't be violent or harm herself. He said he can't see how they get to that conclusion because she has actually been an impatient when she took pills before (many years ago). They said they don't see that on her record (they were living somewhere else but surely records transfer?).

I know I've probably sounded quite cross with dp through this thread but I felt for him last night. Their expectation was that he would help because he's ds's father. At one stage, they even suggested he moved in for a bit to help out (they said he could stay in the spare room fgs!). He actually cried last night in front of them, said she makes his life a misery and he's exhausted by it and can't help anymore.

Anyway, dp said no. He said he would do what he could. He said tomorrow he is already going round at 730 because ds wants to practice the eulogy. He has agreed to stay all day through the funeral and the wake but then he is going home. He told them he cannot be her carer. They seemed to accept this but she won't.

The minute she got home she started calling incessantly. Dp called her back and said I am coming at 730 tomorrow and that is that. Nothing you can say or do will make me come any sooner and it finally stopped her calling.

He told me he gets my point about boundaries now. And he can see what I mean about the fact that he was making it worse giving in to her all the time. I am not sure I believe him, only time will tell and I'm not sure there's any left. He hasn't booked anywhere for dinner because I asked him if he had today (I told him to choose the restaurant). I want to see him make an effort for me.

Already this morning he went out to drive to the ex w's house and she was waiting outside in her car with the biggest grin on her face saying I'll give you a lift.

I don't think this will ever end tbh. Roll on dinner tomorrow.

Good for him, and good for you. Hope the funeral goes off smoothly today and that DP is back with you at a reasonable time.

Hope your dp manages to leave after the funeral and that you manage to go out on friday to talk. At 15 your dss is really having a rough time of it, feel so sorry for him. Good luck hope you manage to sort things out.

could you pick your dp up tonight? if so try to get in contact with him and arrange it. he may feel more bolstered to be able to say 'no, im leaving' that way. she's obviously got it sorted so that he will stay until others are gone and can continue the loony behaviour so be prepared to call the police again. have your phone ready to record any threats and report her should she make them. your dps pandering has not and is not helping. she needs some proper help and that means involving appropriate authorities. and if you want him to change his ways I think it may mean you stepping up and showing the balls until he is strong enough to.

oh and the thing with the pills, your dp wasn't present in the woods was he? my ex pulled this stunt, there will be no record because it didn't happen. she may have been in the woods but there won't have been a suicide attempt, which is also why ss haven't properly been involved.

Hi, the police told us they confiscated 200 paracetamols from her (not this time, the time before). She has, according to dp, taken pills like that before, in her 20s (so a good 20 odd years ago). He went away to visit his family, she was furious he had gone so she took the pills. They were running a B and B at the time - someone discovered her and she got rushed to hospital.

The big issue for dp is that these threats are real. It isn't like he is over exaggerating and having met her myself, I am honestly amazed that any doctor or social services type individual think she is a responsible adult. I don't know if she is very good at putting on a show for them, she must be. She has 2 sisters both have been sectioned in the past, neither are capable of holding down jobs.

Dp has said, privately, that he wishes he had never met her. Their child wasn't planned. He has said even from the off she has been attempting to control him (like the suicide attempt when he went away for the weekend) and he of course finds it terribly hard to walk away. She says things like 'you abandon me and don't help me, I'll make sure I kill myself and I will make sure ds knows I killed myself because of you'. She has also said this in front of me and in front of ds.

People say get the authorities involved. They are, but nothing seems to happen.

Yes, picking him up later is not a bad idea. At the moment, I've been trying to put the whole situation to one side and think about me and dcs.

Also, thanks to whoever mentioned enabler. I have looked it up - it is very like what dp has been doing with her. Except he tries to break it now and she ups the ante. For him I think there is a v difficult line between walking away and tolerating abuse (which he can do) and walking away and she kills herself and he's finding it hard to cope with that responsibility. (Esp re ds)

To think that this thread started as "am I being unreasonable?" ...

If you do carry on with DP then it might be an idea to get legals involved:
-is he really divorced, have you seen the paperwork
-is there a way to re-visit the divorce settlement (the payout is "all dependent on a number of transactions" - they are never going to happen, are they)
-get a restraining order

Hope you get the outcome that you want.

I think the time may have come where the authorities need to be involved over every little thing. if they're only involved in the more major incidents then they're not getting the full view. also sometimes it does take repetitive banging down of authorities doors to get them involved. if your dp is as worried as he says I honestly think he needs to call ss in himself.

I feel for your DSS, but even though he is 15 and can make choices for himself he still needs protecting.

Tbh senua, while dp throughout this is pleading with me not to let ex-w break us up, my feeling is it is him who is letting the relationship fail

I am in a pretty strong position tbh. I do love him but I am also very protective over me and the kids and tbh, I don't think the way he is is ideal for us as a family unit. At the moment, he spends all his emotional energy on dealing with her then needs his 'release' time in the pub. He has only been out once this week so it isn't like he is always there but I get the feeling he'd rather be there more.

I think he is very emotionally fucked up. My stance on Friday, if he actually books dinner somewhere (!), will be either he starts behaving like he's in a relationship or he has to go. I don't like giving ultimatums. The truth is if we weren't living together, I would have broken up with him by now. But as he lives with us, the kids absolutely adore him and have a relationship with him, I feel I owe him a chance. But he has to start behaving like he's in a relationship with me and not throwing himself from one crisis to the next at her whim.

He also needs to see a lawyer and a counsellor in my opinion.

Anyway, I can only do so much. Most of this is in his hands.

I TOTALLY get where he is and I do, as a friend, feel sorry for him. I would hate for someone to be dangling suicide like this in front of me and my child, it would rip me in two. But ultimately, I think if he starts standing up to her, the situation will improve though I think it will get worse before it gets better!

dp throughout this is pleading with me not to let ex-w break us up, my feeling is it is him who is letting the relationship fail

Hold on to this thought.
He is feeling guilty about the ex threatening suicide. He shouldn't. Whatever she does is her decision ; she cannot play the 'you made me do it' card. Similiarly - as you so rightly say - if the relationship between you and he goes down the pan then that is between you two; he cannot blame it on some third party, namely the ex.

I think that you might be better if you ended it. I lost all sympathy for him when you said that he left the ex, went back but then had affairs.

My other issue is do I really want to be with someone I have to tell how to behave? If I get into the situation where I'm telling him what to do, am I not just handing myself a whole world of pain? Because it feels like I would be :(

It sounds to me as though he should get a solicitor's letter to her - 'Please only contact me in relation DS, or when you have details of the business payout. In the meantime, any other form of contact will be considered to be harrasment'. Because it is.

You need to just free yourself of this. It is not going to change.

Didn't you say that you have kids of your own? Imagine how it's affecting them.

Just end it and get on with your life.

Definitely try to figure out where you are yourself in this relationship. You seem to have some things very spot on in that it is him that's letting you down and yes, I can see you wouldn't want to be with someone who you have to tell how to behave. And you are definitely right in that she will get worse before she gets better if he stands up to her.

However, I sort of find his actions last night telling. He sounds very much like a couple of friends I have who were abused, and that he may have finally reached the breaking point himself but has been in the mire so long he's a) conditioned and b) can't see the woods for the trees and feels utterly trapped. I don't think you need to tell him so much what to do, but if you feel your relationship is worth another shot you may have to be the strong bolster for a while until he is out of the fog. You will probably have to sit him down and be the manager of the situation: write down all of the problems and work with him to find a solution that doesn't mean pandering. I totally agree with mistle about getting a solicitor in and getting it laid on the line, also with senua about getting this payment sorted. Of course he needs to do this, but it seems he may need you to convince him.

If you stick with it, its probably not going to be easy. But tbh, I think you know that anyway!

Wonder if he has such a strong desire to stay with his mum, because he has a real fear that she may attempt to take her own life if he leaves. What a terrible burden for someone so young.

Re: overactive guilt gland. If you were made to feel like you were directly responsible for whether someone else lived or died, think you'd be easily manipulated too. Especially when that person is the mother of your child, and who knows what she says to him. He's probably immensly relieved you don't put the same pressure on him.

I would strongly suggest talking to a GP/teacher at DS's school ... GCSEs are upcoming and this is all incredibly important for him/social services.

And start keeping a record of when she calls, what she says, what DH does for her, etc.

Out of interest - and apologies if you've said this already - who initiated the divorce?

Blue Lagoon

well done on you and your partner standing firm. Your partner is not obliged to support his ex wife despite that suiting SS. I suggest contacting the local Mind organisation to see if they have any services for DSS (young carers or some such).

I'd also be making sure that his school are aware of the circumstances. Do you know which dept of social services were involved? It sounds to me like it was adult/social care rather then children and families, who should be involved as this is a safeguarding issue.

I understand that your primary concern is your DC and sorting out the relationship and that you might not want to further involve yourself and a totally get why.

Hope today goes ok.

Only read the OP (I know I know)

Anyway OP, I don't think you are being unreasonable to be fed up, but I also don't think he is being unreasonable as his children are with someone who doesn't appear stable. :(

shit situation all round.

Yes it was adult social services. The ds has major problems at school - attendance issues, he bullies other children. He has been suspended and he is on a last warning before he is expelled.

Since dp moved out, my impression is that this has improved somewhat probably because there is less fighting going on but also because dp actually sees so much of ds one way or another (as there is no fixed access arrangement and he runs around them all the time) which I'm not sure is entirely healthy (as ex w always makes sure she is in on this). For example when he volunteers to take ds out, she always turns up with him or she will persuade ds to say he is tired so that dp has to stay in their house to see him.

I am actually more worried he gives ds false hope of them getting back together. But I am pleased his behaviour has improved.

Someone asked who initiated the divorce, she did. The problem is once they separated the first time and he went back to get access to ds, he made it clear he could not be in a relationship (sexually/romantically) with ex w. Ex w has actually told me this bizarrely. So he went back so he could see ds and to basically help out ex w but had affairs on the side which she knew about. When she found out about me, she came to see me to ask whether I would consider just being an affair and she could have dp back. I thought it was bizarre at the time given they were divorced and he had moved out but apparently, he still spent a fair amount of time there (given what he is like now I can believe that). She just wants him there. I don't actually think she loves him but what would I know - she definitely doesn't want sex with him, she told me this, I am welcome to that apparently lol! She is totally and utterly dependent on him, that is my impression even though she is an eloquent, intelligent woman herself. Her plan is to sell the house, inherit all the money, dangle that carrot in front of his nose with the access to ds and move well away from our area somewhere else to start another business with him. She thinks if she threatens to move ds away he will follow, that's what she is bargaining on.

I don't want to be a pawn in their stupid game though. And I do feel sorry for dp, I do think he behaves like an abused person and as much as I have drummed into his head that even if she does attempt suicide, it is not his fault, all her friends, social services, his son, the police - all of them think dp should be there sorting it out and looking after her. And I am really not sure he can cope with that guilt.

Anyway let's see what Friday brings. Dinner booked!

Yes it was adult social services. The ds has major problems at school - attendance issues, he bullies other children. He has been suspended and he is on a last warning before he is expelled.

Since dp moved out, my impression is that this has improved somewhat probably because there is less fighting going on but also because dp actually sees so much of ds one way or another (as there is no fixed access arrangement and he runs around them all the time) which I'm not sure is entirely healthy (as ex w always makes sure she is in on this). For example when he volunteers to take ds out, she always turns up with him or she will persuade ds to say he is tired so that dp has to stay in their house to see him.

I am actually more worried he gives ds false hope of them getting back together. But I am pleased his behaviour has improved.

Someone asked who initiated the divorce, she did. The problem is once they separated the first time and he went back to get access to ds, he made it clear he could not be in a relationship (sexually/romantically) with ex w. Ex w has actually told me this bizarrely. So he went back so he could see ds and to basically help out ex w but had affairs on the side which she knew about. When she found out about me, she came to see me to ask whether I would consider just being an affair and she could have dp back. I thought it was bizarre at the time given they were divorced and he had moved out but apparently, he still spent a fair amount of time there (given what he is like now I can believe that). She just wants him there. I don't actually think she loves him but what would I know - she definitely doesn't want sex with him, she told me this, I am welcome to that apparently lol! She is totally and utterly dependent on him, that is my impression even though she is an eloquent, intelligent woman herself. Her plan is to sell the house, inherit all the money, dangle that carrot in front of his nose with the access to ds and move well away from our area somewhere else to start another business with him. She thinks if she threatens to move ds away he will follow, that's what she is bargaining on.

I don't want to be a pawn in their stupid game though. And I do feel sorry for dp, I do think he behaves like an abused person and as much as I have drummed into his head that even if she does attempt suicide, it is not his fault, all her friends, social services, his son, the police - all of them think dp should be there sorting it out and looking after her. And I am really not sure he can cope with that guilt.

Anyway let's see what Friday brings. Dinner booked!

Sadly my experiences with the likes of adult SS and the police is they'll often try to find the easy way out in situations like this - try to place the burden on someone else. The thing is they're divorced and he has tried. He needs to man up some more and tell these services to do their job, him trying to help has made it worse.

I remember some adult social workers getting the shock of their lives when my mum finally tore a strip off them telling them she could not physically be her MILs full time carer and it was time they did what they were meant to - if MIL needed anything else then they had to source it not from her. And I was exceptionally proud of her for finally doing it.

Agree with Eatriskier, if someone is coercible into doing care, it's a much cheaper and easier option for SS and they don't 'need' to put anything into place themselves. Until he is prepared to draw a line, walk away and stay away, and only be involved with DS out of the house, they won't step up and take over. Unfortunately services sometimes only get triggered when they're forced to.

The only way to cope with those suicide threats is to be gently clear that it's her decision, and hand it back to her. Currently it's behaviour that's working very well for her, and it's behaviour that a professional needs to be addressing. As for 'making sure ds knows' it was his father's fault if she commits suicide, I'd tell her that if it happens then he'd help ds deal with the distress she'd cause him by doing it, and to understand it from a mentally healthy point of view. And that counsellors can help ds see the same thing if need be..

And yes there will always be people who will tell your partner he should sacrifice himself entirely to her needs, no matter what the cost. That doesn't make them right. That's a job also for a counsellor to help him get straight in his head. Unless he gets some of this sorted out, (and is willing and committed to doing so), he's probably not in a fit state to be able to have another relationship. I'd be wanting him to commit to a few sessions with a counsellor as part of the agreement that he's 'in'.

It's good news that he has booked dinner. I think that you need to try to play it cool. It must be tempting to rush in there with a rant and say "I want this, I want that". But it might be better to sit back and say "I'm not happy with the way things are - these are the problems. Now tell me what you propose to do about it". So much better if the ideas come from him, not you - I think that he quite enjoys being controlled/put-upon and he needs to get out of that mindset. Also, if it is his idea then he will be more invested in it, will take ownership of it.

How did the funeral go?

Funeral went ok though ex w called his phone, then my phone then the landline all night. I can't turn my phone off for work reasons. Had to unplug the landline. I have reported her before for nuisance calls. Dp left the wake and ex w was completely pissed. Listening to the messages on the answer phone she sounds it. She has other family and friends at the funeral so she wasn't on her own.

Dinner went ok. Dp v sorry, said the right things but that's the easy bit. Delivering what he promises will be the telling thing. Came back and ex w started calling all the phones again and threatening to come round and knock the door down at 800. Sigh. She has texted to say he took a piece of furniture that is actually hers. He has taken nothing from her house other than this so as far as I'm concerned it's all a smoke screen.

Dp thinks that now he has taken the hard line with her she will just be on our door step constantly. The kids aren't with us this weekend so in a way, if there is going to be a confrontation then now's the time for it. He has agreed he needs counselling.

I need a rest this weekend. I am totally exhausted. I have a friend's 40th tonight and I'm really looking forward to it. I have said I think he should move out for a while, we are going to talk more about it over the weekend but ultimately I don't want the stress of this any more so I'm just going to relax this weekend and not worry about the whole thing!