to think the OW is also to blame?

[HunterWellies]

Until fairly recently I have always thought that if a dp leaves his family for an OW that the responsibility for that lies just with him.

He is the one with a commitment that he has decided to break to be with the OW. She might be free of any prior commitment and in a position to start a relationship.

But if starting that new relationship means breaking apart a young family, and the OW knows that, should she also carry some of the responsibility? I am beginning to think that she should. Aibu?

[CrohnicallyFarting]

I haven't RTFT but just had to post after reading something on one of the first 2 pages, about how you would view a friend differently who was involved with a married man.

I know a lady through work, several years ago her husband left her seemingly out if the blue. She thought their marriage was fine but he had been having an affair, she had no idea, and once the last child left home he upped sticks and left too. She was devastated and very bitter about it.

Fast forward a couple of years and she began seeing someone else. Initially she kept it very quiet, but I was in a position to overhear some of her phone calls (NOT eavesdropping, but I would be working in the same room as her when she would answer her phone). It quickly became apparent to me that the man she was seeing was married.

To be honest, I haven't seen her in the same light since. How could she be seeing a married man, knowing how awful it felt to be the married woman in the equation?

[zeezeek]

There are some people who are absolute twats and who don't give a damn about anything. Then there are people who fall in love with something, marry or live together, have children maybe and then realise they don't love their DH/DP. Sometimes nothing else happens, except they get increasingly unhappy. Sometimes they meet someone else and decide that they want to be with them.
It's shit, but it happens and until anyone is in that situation, then they can't judge what the people involved feel.
I remember someone saying to me, many years ago, that happily married people don't have affairs. Obviously that is a bit simplistic (ie the twats), but generally I think it's true. We shouldn't judge as no-one knows what really goes on in anyone's relationship other than the 2 people in it.

[falulahthecat]

Of course it all depends on the situation, and the heart wants what it wants etc. But I;d like to think I wouldn't even contemplate 'going for' a married man or man living with a DP and DC's and would feel extremely guilty and not be able to handle being the OW.

I also know a woman who purposefully pursued a man who was getting married in a few weeks and said she didn't give two shits care about the poor girl, and actually expected people to feel sorry for her whn he still got married, so maybe some women just don't care!

[hermionepotter]

I think often people decide they're in an 'unhappy marriage' because they now want to shag someone else. They also then go out of their way to make it unhappy, by being unpleasant to their spouse, comparing spouse unfavourably to affair partner and so on. Very unfair. If you want to be with someone else, at least leave your spouse straight away with kindness.
All the people I've know who've had affairs have had one trait in common, which is selfishness

[zeezeek]

Surely if someone decides they are in an unhappy marriage - then there's something wrong with their marriage?

[hermionepotter]

I'm saying they decide it's unhappy retrospectively to justify an affair. (Then later realise they weren't that unhappy and they want to go back to the marriage, which happens a fair bit.)

[zeezeek]

My fault - I misunderstood!

[Bogeyface]

Surely if someone decides they are in an unhappy marriage - then there's something wrong with their marriage?

Sadly not. The number of threads on Relationships were the OP says "We were happy, we were planning another child/holiday/Xmas etc, and then out of the blue he tells me that he has been unhappy for 5 years, I had no idea!"

Because during those 5 years he wasnt unhappy, but to justify his affair he needs something to have been wrong. If he cant pin it on the wife with a direct made up issue eg "You got fat/didnt want enough sex/wanted too much sex/didnt work/worked too much..." then he will pin it on vague unhappiness for however many years fits the story he told the OW.

Cheaters will rewrite history to fit their chosen narrative because the truth is rarely so easy to manage.

[RonaldMcDonald]

I think it has loads to do with people pretending to be things that they are not.
So some men go along with things whilst inside they are screaming NOOO. They might not want a wedding, a house, two kids etc but their gf does and she is a very determined type or perhaps they have been brought up to think that these are the things are musts. The things pile on top of each other, one after the other and they try to pretend they are happy but they aren't.
They start to feel shit about themselves but don't even know where they are or what they want. I think at this point they usually find a jumping off point. Often they use another relationship as a stepping stone.

Men leave because they want to or need to. I don't think OW really have anything to do with it.

[ahlahktuhflomp]

Assuming it is knowingly, YANBU.

Messing around with a married man or woman is the act of a scumbag.

Whether they are to blame as much as the married person need not be in debate, they are still to blame inasmuch as their own choices go.

Of course, adulterers don't always tell the OW/OM they're married. Obviously then no blame is shared.

[ahlahktuhflomp]

I don't think people decide to pretend they were unhappy as often as they were unhappy, but nobody cared to ask or address it as long as they shut up and did their jobs.

@Ronald isn't that a bit like most men bar the frank spencer types though?

[RonaldMcDonald]

what do you mean re Frank Spencer?

[Sortyourmakeupout]

Both shits.

Both deserve each other.

[Lazyjaney]

"Surely if someone decides they are in an unhappy marriage - then there's something wrong with their marriage?"

MN Heresy! That implies that both parties in the relationship have some responsibility for the relationship, and that is Anathema. The cheater is always completely at fault.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

Agree with RonaldMcDonald who I think has made a good point. People within a couple don't always want the same things long-term, even if they thought they did. That's quite evident really with the number of break-ups/divorces now.

I think that when you look at the physical time that affair partners spend together, it's very minor compared with the time spent with the primary partner, having far less impact or importance placed on it. Splitting up with an affair partner is a relatively simple thing to do, splitting up from a spouse is not.

[LouiseAderyn]

I'm sure that some cheaters are in unhappy marriages, but I reckon plenty of others are not. They just enjoy how the ow/om makes them feel - like getting their carefree youth back and not having to be concerned with discussions about the mortgage and rl minutiae.

It is quite hard for a spouse to compete with that, however attractive or interesting the spouse is, because they can't always put their best face on (like the affair partner) - they have to be concerned with the rl stuff and can't exist in the fantasy world of the affair.

[LouiseAderyn]

And yes, the cheater is always at fault because you can't accidentally shag someone else. At some point a choice is made and in that moment the cheater doesn't care about their family as much as they care about their own desires.

And then, to justify it to themselves ( because no one wants to think of themselves as just a selfish, weak person) they then maybe decide they were unhappy after all!

[ahlahktuhflomp]

I wonder. I don't think the unhappiness is an excuse anyway tbh. Even if long term unhappiness does weigh down more heavily than most of us can easily stand, imagine if all promises were subject to "unless I feel miserable in which case fuck it"

I guess like everything else, it depends on the case - still if you knowingly are the OM or OW I'm afraid that's a dick move all of its own.

Re: the Frank Spencer thing, oh don't get me started! That will get its own thread when I air it, I think.

[LittleMissDisorganized]

Crohn my mum did that, and it was very hard to watch as a teenager.

And then I near enough repeated the cycle. I was in a very bad place, very ill and disturbed and I hated myself even more for it. It really can be very powerful, and in subsequent generations.

I am in a good place now, but those actions fill me with remorse and regret, and an inability to put it right.

[Mimishimi]

I think mumandboys got it right. The OW, if she knows and continues, feels that somehow she is different, that it is the fault of the X that her husband has cheated on her .... for pretty much all the reasons mumandboys gave. That's if they really do feel that they 'are in so much lurve'. If not, she just doesn't care who she treads on to get what she wants.

Ultimately the responsibility is with the husband though. I think I'd be very tempted to imply that she wasn't the first and subtly let her know I think it's good riddance to him if I found myself in that situation. Then again, reality would probably be totally different.