to think the OW is also to blame?

[HunterWellies]

Until fairly recently I have always thought that if a dp leaves his family for an OW that the responsibility for that lies just with him.

He is the one with a commitment that he has decided to break to be with the OW. She might be free of any prior commitment and in a position to start a relationship.

But if starting that new relationship means breaking apart a young family, and the OW knows that, should she also carry some of the responsibility? I am beginning to think that she should. Aibu?

[ethelb]

morethanpotatoprints - since Eve ate the apple hey?

[MollyHooper]

I guess I know the difference between how I feel about my friends and how I feel about someone I am attracted too. I think we all know the difference.

Not that there is anything wrong with being attracted to people of course but when your feelings start to change it's very noticeable. People would be lying if they said otherwise.

It's then you make the choice, do I take things further or do I nip this in the bud?

The option is always there and the fact is people choose to continue. Not because they are helpless or confused but because it makes them feel good.

[Notify]

Where it's "just" cheating I think you're usually looking at a serial offender and therefore there's no one OW/OM. They are the despicable ones.

"Good" people can find themselves in affairs but they wouldn't find themselves having ONS.

[CookieB]

scottishmummy is right. I think a lot of men feel entitled to check out of a relationship blaming lack of affection, sex blah blah giving them the 'right' to pursue another woman when the fault in their life is caused by regular family stress and difficulties. I had a friend in an extremely toxic relationship though who met a lovely unattached man who gave her an insight to a normal life and after leaving her P, she couldn't be happier.

[Notify]

Yes, you know the difference but people don't always know the difference before it's too late. Especially for people who haven't had a lot of partners.

[CookieB]

LyingWitch, I think a woman this horrendous obviously has issues but nothing stops this behaviour until its met with an extreme outcome...a proper & literal kick up the arse .

[revealall]

I don't entirely agree with the statement that "men can't be seduced- they leave the relationship because they want to"

Because clearly many men don't leave until someone "better" comes along. Which suggests that the marriage wasn't bad enough to leave on it's own. I know that life isn't always that simple though.

[MamaPain]

Notify, I think you and I have different definitions of an affair.

To me an affair is a relationship, it has an intention, it's going somewhere, its a commitment.

Cheating where it's just sex or what I suppose might be termed a fling, is short term, in the moment, has an end point.

Obviously the latter can morph into the former but to me cheating can happen simultaneously as commitment to a long-term partner. I'd much rather DH cheated on me than had an affair. I'd divorce him over an affair.

[Notify]

Cookie. Did your friend get together with her lovely new man before or after she left her toxic P?

[Notify]

But he'd have more control over the cheating.

I agree the affair would be more damaging to your relationship because he would have a level of emotional attachment elsewhere but the cheating would be more deliberate.

[Notify]

Oh and a ONS might be "just sex" but repeated sex with the same person very rarely is.

[CookieB]

She met him while her exp was in prison for physically attacking her. He was a friend of a friend & they eventually met up 3 months after her exp got out. They had texted each other about every 2/3 during this time & met up because he was passing through her hometown to go back to work. He is a military man from different area and our town is between his home & his base.

[CookieB]

*every 2/3 weeks casually. Whoops

[MamaPain]

I think it depends on your expectation of a relationship and views on monogamy.

Having a brief fling (which yes can involve emotions) is still, to me forgivable. An affair is the only thing I'd consider a betrayal.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

revealall I don't know about that. Marriages are not that easy to get out of. When you have financial commitments and you would have to explain to friends and family that you've met somebody else... you can see why some people take the view that they will stick with what they have.

It's not necessarily that the somebody else is 'better', in my opinion, it's that the somebody else offers something that is perceived to be missing from the primary relationship.

I too would divorce over an affair. Sex is one thing but the emotional investment of an affair would be too much for me to get over.

[Notify]

So, was she still with ex when they met up? If so, how can he be "lovely" and the OM? I know, extreme circumstances but everyone thinks their own circumstances are unique

[Notify]

I think "it was just sex" is something people say to make thier spouses feel better/get themselves off the hook (depending on your POV in this discussion) and apparently it would work judging by the last few points! It's very rarely true for men or women.

[CookieB]

Eh because he isn't emotionally or physically abusive and for the first time in a decade she is happy. She didn't cheat. Her exp was aware of having to find new living arrangements when he was released and she lived as a single woman until 3 months later.

[Notify]

Yes, that's exactly my point. Your friend is an extreme example but there are "reasons" why it's Ok for every OM/OW which is why I don't automatically think OW or the unfaithful MM are as bad as they're painted.

[MamaPain]

Notify, I've always taken 'just sex' to not actually mean that. To me its a shorthand for:

Brief/ enjoyed the time together/ felt attracted/ desperately wanted to scratch that itch/ suited the individual circumstances at the time/ don't want it to go any further.

I've always said to my DH since we were certain that our relationship was for the long haul, that if he ever cheats on me, and its not a relationship, its just a fling, I would see the true betrayal as letting me find out not the act itself. Long-term relationships have peaks and troughs, monogamy is hard, other people are desirable and often easy; sometimes they can provide a quick fix, I don't see that as despicable, its the other person becoming a permanent solution that would cause an issue for me and evidently lots of other people.

[Notify]

Hmm but I don't think you could get into that, scratch the itch in any satisfactory way at the same time as enjoying their company and not get involved emotionally. Which would make it an affair IMO

I hear you if it was a ONS but if it happened more than once or twice there is an emotional reason they keep going back.

[CookieB]

Notify,you are right. There is no black or white. Just a huge grey area where scumbag men and female deviants are not included.

[MamaPain]

But haven't you ever gone out with someone who you fancy and there is an emotional attachment in that you enjoy the time you spend with them, the sex, the intimacy etc but you can see it isn't going anywhere or its only for a short time? A holiday romance for example.

DH and I have been together for over 20 years, I can see how a similar thing could have happened at some point without influencing the cumulative sum of our marriage.

People can become extremely emotionally attached to fantasies and that is often just dismissed.

[Notify]

I don't think a holiday romance is the same thing at all - that's essentially a series of ONS as you know you'll never see them again and actually if there was any sort of meaningful emotional attachment I would think even that was very damaging to the "main" relationship.

Although just to complicate things my friend is in her 19th year of marriage with a holiday romance from her teens ... in Magaluf

[badbaldingballerina123]

I think overall there is a lack of knowledge about affairs and infidelity. Nobody thinks about it until it's happened and then they wonder how they got there .

Many experts say that affairs are NOT about sex , love, or intimacy. They say they are a result of a dopamine addiction , the brains reward system for pleasurable activities. It's why people can't resist that piece of cake when they're on a diet , why they drink or take drugs.

It's what happens when we initially meet our partners , it's that falling in love feeling . Of course it's not sustainable and when it wears off we either split up or it evolves into something more mature .

It's why in the midst of an affair the betrayed behaves like a drug addict , they'll say and do anything to see the affair partner , in other words , get another dopamine hit . It's why no contact must happen , and why , once the addiction wears off , they cannot believe what they've done.