to wonder if my boss has Aspergers?

[Katiep10]

I work for a smallish company - about 100 people in an open plan office. The long and short of it is that she drives people insane and has quite a complex personality and i wonder if there is more to it though.

She is late forties and has never been in a long term relationship despite talking a lot about how much she would like one. She is, however, extremely picky and is often very rude about people's appearances so I wonder if this has something to do with in in a small way. She is a bit of a joke in the office and once she engages you in conversation it is impossible to get away, sometimes she can talk (about absolutely nothing) for as long as 30 mins without drawing breath or noticing that the other person hasn't said a word. Her conversation is painfully dull (never known anything like it). She can often be very blunt and rude to people and quite frankly, leave you open-mouthed at the things she comes out with. She is quite draining to be with every day, 5 days a week because she is extremely intense, and no matter how hard i try, i just cannot ever seem to have just a normal conversation with her because she gets over excited and dominates.

I have wondered on occasion if she may suffer from undiagnosed Aspergers. Although i feel sorry for her (and I do try to stick up for her when people take the p1ss) I am finding her behavious increasingly more exhausting and i leave work with my ears absolutely ringing to the extent that i consider leaving a job i love because her behaviour annoys me so much. Does anyone have any experience of this? Ultimately i wish she knew the impact she has on people and could in some way try to temper her behaviour as i do have enormous sympathy for her because she is quite a lonely character.

My.post was to crohnically.

Of the "...about 100 people in an open plan office" Katiep10 how many feel the same way as you, or is it simply the case that you don't like the manager?

Incidentally, 100 people in an open plan office sounds horrendous!

Ah, thanks, Polter, been wondering what it was

I have often met highly intelligent people who have no social skills or awareness. I don't think they have aspergers, but I do think they have been encouraged in their intelligence with social skills be over looked. I remember a child I worked with was showing early signs of intelligence. Mum was very concerned about his social side because her nieces were highly intelligent but really lacking in social skills and her sister was now worried because they were having trouble at school. She was concerned of the same thing happening.

My ds's scout leader is a very intelligent woman, but she really has no clue on what is suitable or reasonable. I didn't need to know too much about her operation but I got a full low down. She doesn't seem to have friends and the scout group is her life. I was rather shocked to realise that she is much younger than we all thought she was. My friend's dad knows her and thinks she was brought up around adults too much as she was quite a late baby to her parents who's friends all had grown up children by the time she arrived and she never really got the social skills which she would have had around children her own age.

Please define "medical diagnosis" for me, too. Seriously.

It's only a label for the ignorant.
For others it's a key to understanding, accessing, facilitating and living.

Where does the all come into it fanjo?

I think a lot of people take offence because of flawed logic- like confirmation bias. Consider the following scenario- I have 4 cards. Each has a number on one side and a letter on the other. I lay them on the table showing A 2 C 4. You do not know what is on the reverse. I say to you 'if there's a 2 on one side, there's a C on the other'. You can turn 2 cards over to try and prove me wrong. Which 2 will you turn?

The thought process behind my statement is NOT 'autism = incredible ability, therefore this person must have autism' but rather 'some people who have an incredible ability have it due to autism. This person has an incredible ability. I wonder if autism could explain it?'

So we're not allowed to consider autism because of a negative attribute. We're not allowed to consider autism because of a positive attribute. In other words, no one should be considering autism at all- so how do people come to the attention of professionals who can make the diagnosis if no one is allowed to have initial suspicions?

You can't seriously be arguing we should be diagnosing everyone with a talent for Maths now.

It is so much more than that.

I just think some people have a really flawed idea of what autism IS.

Its not being a maths whizz who is rude and single.

DS is crap with computers. Really crap.
It would be very useful if he fitted the stereotype.

I think most of you are determined to disagree with me whatever I say.

I KNOW that autism isn't about being a maths whizz. I brought the subject up to discuss positive vs negative stereotypes and whether one is more acceptable than the other.

I didn't mean to imply that all people with a talent have autism. Which is why in my post I use the word some. And I am not on about diagnosing people, that can only be done by a trained professional, I am on about someone, a lay person, having a fleeting thought, or maybe bringing the possibility up on a talk forum.

PS can anyone answer my logic question please? I'm interested to see if my hypothesis is right.

Crohn, do you think if it was confirmed that the boss in the OP's firm has AS that it would change a single thing?
It won't change her behaviour, or that of the OP, so what is the point?

I would agree with you if you posted something I agreed with.

It's like clicking in a newslink about a spree shooting and thinking 'It will be in the USA' or a gun crime in London and thinking 'It will be a member of an ethnic minority doing the crime, or a dog attack and thinking 'Staffie or pitbull type'
The boss is not only a successful businesswoman, she is also oblivious to certain social conventions. Which do you think the OP is judging her possible dx by?

I think it would change the OP's perception of the problem.

If her boss is just rude, the OP has little choice but to accept or leave.

If her boss has Asperger's syndrome, it is likely that 'rudeness' is down to an impairment in one area of the triad and the OP might be able to make things easier for herself by addressing that.

For example, look at the way the boss holds monologues.

If she has AS then maybe she is unaware of the effect it has on OP, as she can't read the subtle signals that OP gives off showing that she is uninterested. The OP could try gently saying something, maybe along the lines of 'I don't have time to talk, I need to get on with my work' whereas if the OP was just rude she wouldn't care that the OP needs to work.

Also I think it would affect the OP's tolerance levels. If she knows that it isn't personal or aimed at her, it is easier to take than when you think your boss is deliberately bullying you. In a similar example, I wouldn't dream of complaining about a person with Tourette's syndrome swearing inappropriately, but I would be annoyed at a NT person doing it.

If someone said something along the lines of 'X won a lot of money at blackjack, it's like they knew what cards were coming up, I wonder if they have autism?' Would that be OK or not, and why?
Unfortunately Kim Peak died a few years ago, his other ability was to be able to read a book and remember all of it. An eidetic memory is as rare in Aspies as it is in the rest of the population. One of the things people seem unable to translate is our (sometimes) slightly obsessive nature, so if we have something in which we are interested we translate that ability into a need to study, which becomes a passion. Basically we've educated ourselves to the point whereby we are experts. Of the five people with AS in this house, I have two that are good at maths, just good, educated to AS level and did averagely. Ds is doing Lit at uni. Dh is a Philosopher, I was a History Lecturer, Dd is going to do Lit and other Dd wants to do Criminal Psychology. A mix, although slightly arts biased, but one would suggest under the circumstances, that's likely to be environment. So, it's like they knew what cards were coming... the question could just as easily be: 'Well, are they good at maths or are they card counters'.

Sockreturningpixie - I believe people with asd are still barred. Don't get me wrong, I actually wouldn't particularly want my son to join the military but it just pisses me off that he couldn't if he wished too. I see it as reinforcing the negative image of asd without accepting that it is a vast spectrum. I don't see it as much different to the person who told me that they wouldn't allow their child to play with X as people with autism are violent and unpredictable. Her face was a picture when I said my son had autism, she didn't have a clue.

The military would be lucky to have my intelligent, rule loving, enthusiastic boy ( ) so it would be their loss anyway but it still grates. It's small in the grand scheme of things I know, so it's silly that it upsets me.

hmmmmm I am single, talk constantly, am rude and I am sure people find me annoying.

I don't have Aspergers.

DD on the other hand is sweet, kind, innocent, happy. Oh yeah, she has ASD and LD

the trouble with threads like this is that so many people are right in the thick of it, so its going to hit nerves and cause hurt.

i dont think that was the intention.

i get what you are trying to say chronically but the sad reality is that people who arent affected by ASD dont really care one way or the other - they dont make allowances.
they certainly didnt for the girl in our training group - i was at pains to explain why she behaved as she did, because i wanted people to have some empathy for her - because i want people to have empathy with my son.

they basically didnt care. even when it was expained - people said to me that if they hadnt known they would have just thought she was weird - but even knowing didnt make much difference in the way she was received.

my son was dx at 7. he is now 22, working and holding down a full time job in IT, but he chooses not to disclose his AS to his workmates - only his managing director knows and unless they do the research then it will mean little to them.

i wish people would just be a little kinder to others.

when my son was recently asked (twice in 3 days) why he "walks funny" he did not know what to say and was embarrassed.

i said to hime have you considered just saying "because i have aspergers, (whats your excuse?) but he says he doesnt want the entire office to know.

he is talented. a whizz with computers. and maths. and science.
he is single.

but i dont think there is a typical AS profile. he is very caring. very empathetic with others. he stops in the street to help people whose shopping has fallen through their bag, he even climbed into a car of a stranger when they collapsed at the wheel and rang 999.

the triad of impairments is part of their personality but above and beyond that they are people, with likes, dislikes, opinions, preferences, talents, human failings, just like the rest of us.

i am a little more detached these days to thses threads because i am a fair way out of hte other side with my boy....we have gone through the worst i think. (i hope)

if this thread makes people just stop, and think, and maybe be a little kinder to that person in the office who is a bit different, or is seen as a bit "weird", or seems to lack understanding around the rules of social engagement - then im all for it.

Polter, I was actually not being sarcastic when I asked you to define medical diagnosis (I think it's interesting to reflect on possible differences between a diagnosis of, say, asthma, and a diagnosis of ASD), and my previous post was just trying to take a bit of an abrasive response (linking to pictures of paper labels ) in good humour. If the word "label" is itself offensive, then I apologise and invite you to reread my posts substituting the words "diagnostic category", or any other of a number of options. It's all I mean.

The fact that there is no "typical" ASD profile is related to the fact that it's a very broad category which people (professionals with psychiatric/psychological training) have defined as seems most useful and accurate at the time. It's a pretty loose category. You can meet diagnostic criteria for very, very many different combinations of reasons, as many have pointed out. In fact it's difficult to argue that ASD is one "thing", one coherent concept. "Aspergers" is (was? - no longer in DSM5) similarly an imperfect diagnostic category created to describe variations between people and to give a "diagnostic reason" for certain atypicalities. These categories are always being changed/refined, and are far from a perfect description of the world.

Crohnically, you're making perfect sense to me, and your Tourette's example is a good one. I think one of the purposes of diagnoses like ASD, and many other diagnoses, is so people can (in theory) be less blaming in relation to behaviours which can be difficult to manage.