AIBU re pain relief in childbirth?

[MogwaiTheGremlin]

Just been for my booking in appointment at the hospital and one of the questions related to my first labour with ds. They asked what pain relief I had and I said 'oh everything. pethidine, gas & air and then an epidural' to which the midwife replied "oh aren't you the greedy one"

I found my first labour horrendous - nowhere near as bad as some of the horror stories I've read on here - but I hated every second of it. ds was back-to-back and I didn't cope with the pain at all well. After failing to progress I was prepped for c section and ended up delivering in theatre via ventouse.

I am terrified of giving birth again and am counting on an epidural to get me through. But attitudes like this really scare me because it feels like pain relief is not as forthcoming as it should be.

This hospital has a reputation for completely natural births so I'm thinking maybe I should switch to somewhere that is more likely to give me the drugs I know I will need.

AIBU to be annoyed by the midwife's comment? Am I overreacting by thinking of switching hospitals?

IdRatherPlayHereWithAllTheMadM

That's a nightmare and you're right so much is down to luck and timing too. I got to the birth centre an hour before I delivered and waited half an hour for the pool - another ten minutes and I might not have managed to get in either!

I don't like the idea of the MW telling you what you should do if it's something you physically can't!

Pain threshold may be a factor but they should know that at any particular stage of labour some women are actually in more pain that others for whatever reason!

I had bad after pains during the night and DH found someone to help who brought me some essential oil on a bit of card... All very nice but I don't think they got how sore the pains were and I couldn't sleep at all. I didn't have bad pains after my first so lay awake worrying that something wasn't right :(

Plus the gas and air thingy was right above where we were sleeping and I was pissed off the stingy mare wouldn't switch it back on - although maybe I'd drained their supply earlier on

The way your midwife speaks to you at the booking appointment can set the tone for the rest of your pregnancy. I told my mw that I wanted an ELCS and she said hahaha no you don't. I didn't feel like I could bring it up again after that , and spent most of my pregnancy stressing and feeling pretty miserable. We saved our pennies and went private for delivery, it was awesome. So no, YANBU.

Mine assured me over and over I wasn't having a massive baby after I told her I was worried because the scans indicated I was (I'm very small!) and I'd had the glucose tests etc... because of it.

She looked at the results and asked me my shoe size (?!) and how big DD was (6 pounds 11) then said "Oh there's no way you're having a big bab. What nonsense" with such confidence that I didn't worry about it again.

I delivered a very big baby! And of course, she knew all along but didn't see the point in telling me

The comment in the OP was probably jokey but it's obvious that a good midwife can make all the difference especially when anxiety levels can really affect how well a labour goes.

Mogwai, I asked to see an anaethetist at one of my hospital check-ups.
I did get to see the consultant anaethetist, a Mr Somebody who did the big, "aren't you even going to try breathing exercises and give mother nature a go," speech.
I'm afraid that at 8 months pregnant I shot back,
"When you sit there and tell a bloke about to have a vasectomy that he'll feel like more of a man if he breathes deeply & refuses pain relief, then I might start to listen to you."
The MW in the room got a coughing spasm & left the room rapidly. When I came out, she said,
"Nobody's spoken to Mr Somebody like that before!"
I said, "Well happen it's time they did!"
BTW, I got my mobile epidural

Yanbu. Of course you can change hospitals to find one that suits your needs better. However, you could also try a birth debrief with a sympathetic health care professional to overcome the trauma and learn some hypnobirthing techniques.

However the mw's comment was unempathetic and unprofessional. She could have listened to your concerns and given appropriate information. 'Greedy' obviously carries a negative meaning and it was deragetory as in "aren't you a lightweight". I don't think it is a mw's role to make flippant and possibly hurtful comments to an expecting mother, especially after she confides her birth fears.

There are great mws out there but a heck of a lot of crap ones too.

From one of your previous posts I think we are talking about the same hospitals. I'll pm you later - off to church now x

Ooooh interesting, thanks Windmill.

Bogey that's so sad, sorry to hear about your awful experience.

Rudolph you got balls!

Rudolph, LOVE it!
I recently had major surgery. When they went through the forms (risks, my job specs, etc.) I told them that I was a medical negligence lawyer. Should've seen their faces! Lol

but birth outcomes aren't JUST about luck

Mine was back to back, the only thing I complained about was pain in my lower spine, back...no one told me or noticed she was back to back my MW were good. Just didn't let me anywhere near the epidural. I trusted them thinking it was the best thing obviously....until discovering MN.

LOts it is luck. How can care stop a chin getting stuck, haemorrhage and so on, placenta pravia, you have natures lottery going agaisnt you and hopsital lottery now.

rudolph fantastic, I wish more people spoke out like you!

perfect storm - there is an element of luck involved, but birth outcomes aren't JUST about luck. How you are cared for and where you have your baby can have a really big impact on the likelihood of you getting through the birth with your womb and your vagina uninjured.

No, sorry, phrased that very badly (middle of the night!). I mean that to imply a woman who needs pain relief is "greedy" or a wimp is insane, because she hasn't actually got that much control, compared to biology and the setting/professionals caring for her. And that it isn't as though needing analgesia for a horribly painful experience is a morally laden position to be in. The whole "well done, you did brilliantly! You're very in touch with your body!" I got told after my labour made me want to roll my eyes to the back of my head, because I happened to know that my body did what it wanted and I was dragged along with it, because of my experience in pregnancy. Labour was a cinch - severe morning sickness which overlapped uncomfortably with severe SPD, not so much. Sod "being in touch with my body" when that body at times put me in a wheelchair. I have difficult and painful pregnancies and relatively easy labours; not from any virtue or sin, but pure luck of the draw. But having experienced staff who recognised that I was doing well and just let me get on with labouring without any interference - not even any internal examinations - was a definite plus. I'm pretty sure other women who'd have equally easy times might not, if on their backs on a gurney with bright lights and unsympathetic staff. However other women in birthing pools planning a delivery like mine might eventually need an epidural, and that should be seen as no worse nor better.

I'drather absolutely. A back to back labour or a breech is just luck. As is being induced when very overdue.

I agree that you shouldn't get so upset about the comment and to write a clear birth plan. don't let her upset you.

My mid wife cheerfully told me that she herself had an epidural. Do what is best for you. Ask midwife when is best time to have epidural,

To back that last post up: in sub-Saharan Africa, the lifetime risk that a woman will die in labour is 1/16.

There's a reason for the existence of the White Ribbon Alliance. Labour being "what women are designed to do" is not one. And as for thousands of births without pain relief; well, there are also thousands of deaths without pain relief. It doesn't mean that's a good thing. Birth and death involve pain for most people, despite being natural processes. Why should that just be seen as an inevitability, let alone a moral good?

Perfect storm - I do think it's worth pointing out that high maternal deaths tends to be the result of the following:

• poor basic health in the mother and no antenatal care
• women who've had infibulation
• women giving birth at the age of 13 or 14
• women with malformed pelvises from malnutrition in childhood
• women suffering from postnatal infections caused by insanitary practices by unqualified attendants.
• women having multiple pregnancies and unsafe abortions
• high rates of HIV infection

In a population of fit, healthy, well-nourished mothers who've had decent antenatal care and who have access to a properly qualified midwife and antibiotics, maternal deaths are actually extremely rare. Even in the absence of doctors and operating theatres.

The percentage of low risk women who plan a homebirth with their second or subsequent baby in the UK who have a completely normal birth is 98.3%. For first time mums it's 80%

That does seem to support the view that our bodies are (generally) designed to give birth.

Obviously modern medicine and obstetrics are a wonderful thing for when things become complicated, and for women at high risk of complication, but for healthy women complications are only the norm if you're giving birth in a medicalised setting.

"And as for thousands of births without pain relief; well, there are also thousands of deaths without pain relief"

"Secondly, women also die every day from pain and exhaustion during childbirth."

Actually they don't.

They die from obstructed labour (because of rickets and infibulation), which then leads to haemorrhage. Pain relief wouldn't help this situation. Only a c/s will save the life of the mother, and this can be done under a general.

Even saying that, obstructed labour isn't usually the main cause of death in these countries. Infection is.

Epidurals don't generally save the lives of mothers and babies (except for when they are used in c/s - they are better than a general).

Outcomes for mothers (ie - in terms of number of blood transfusions and admittance to HDU) in particular are better in settings where epidurals are harder to access and require transfer.

Not to say that epidurals aren't great for some people!

You're very in touch with your body!" I got told after my labour made me want to roll my eyes to the back of my head, because I happened to know that my body did what it wanted and I was dragged along with it, because of my experience in pregnancy

yes I was told after my first labour, it was textbook, amazing. I did nothing. It was a physical process I had no part in. As much as weeing or being sick or having a head ache.

I told the head MW after meeting her to discuss pain relief option for my second...as she told me I must have a good birth canal..that my first labour was brilliant esp for a first time mum....

I am not just a pair of hips. There is a person, a brain and a woman attached to them, a woman who was in too much pain.

She just sort of glazed over not listening....

The comment is not only rude, its thoughtless and unprofessional.

So I think you are being reasonable to be concerned over this comment, even if it is a simple seemingly throwaway one. I do think it reveals a fair bit.

Her response should have been to ask why and to explore your concerns - either to reassure you or to find out if there was something more from your previous experiences that needed to be considered. It is not uncommon for women to have had a bad experience in a previous birth which caused them extreme distress and then anxiety in subsequent pregnancies. It is important to mental wellbeing. Her lack of knowledge / experience here is worrying. I find it appalling that so few hospitals have proper awareness of the subject and support for women experiencing this type of anxiety is so patchy and inconsistent.

If you think the hospital has a particular reputation I would be inclined to find out more and whether this was backed up in their policy. If it doesn't match with how you feel - change to one that has a philosophy that matches yours better. You aren't being precious in anyway, you are just looking for the right care for your particular circumstances.

No Chunderella - of course they don't ALL get their babies out eventually. But most of them do. In good health and without any help.

I don't see the point you are trying to make about antenatal care being 'unnatural'. I'm making a case that in a healthy mother and in the absence of disease childbirth is usually uncomplicated. And it is.

BTW Chunderella - to spare you further arguments, I absolutely agree that modern obstetrics is an absolute godsend, and a life saver for many mums and babies. I just don't agree that epidurals on balance improve clinical outcomes for most women and babies, and I think the research bears this out. I still think epidurals are great and very important for some women

when i read a post like this, I realise that a big part of the reason why I feel content and happy in my life, in comparison with apparently so many mumsnetters, is that it wouldn't even occur to me to get upset with something like this. She was making conversation. Period.

I think if you sense that a comment is unprofessional and insensitive you're unlikely to be wrong. I had a midwife - who was inexperienced and patronising at the same time, a dreadful combination - refuse to believe I was in (hypertonic) labour shortly after she had herself administered what I was told afterwards was an unusually high dose of prostin. I even overheard her making a derogatory comment to a colleague (well within my earshot) to the effect that I wasn't in labour yet and was making a big fuss over nothing - baby was born less than a couple of hours later. In my notes she had even written several dismissive comments to the effect that I was "tearful" and making a fuss despite only having mild prostin pains. Sadly some midwives still are not at all professional, sensitive or understanding in their bedside manner (I actually found the doctors I had interactions with far more professional and courteous than most of the midwives).