In assuming most men going on holiday alone to Thailand, are going to have sex with prostituted women or men?

[Grennie]

It is estimated that about 1% of Thailand's GDP is earned through sexual exploitation tourism.

In 2003 (the last year for which full figures are available) some 545,000 British residents arrived on visits. If you remove the children, and the British citizens visiting for business or reasons other than a holiday, you arrive at about 489,000—314,000 men and 175,000 women. That is 139,000 more British men than women coming to Thailand for a holiday—a gap of 28 per cent.

In no other international holiday destination, is there such a big difference in the number of women and men travelling there. There is no obvious reason for this apart from prostitution.

But because I've been trying to explain that - I've been accused of all sort of things including gaslighting, not letting women talk about a problem and thinking about the men. It's bullying tactics.

I haven't wanted to do that at all and it hurts me that people think that. I've simpley been responding to the AIBU. I think it's a massive problem but I think the assumption that most men go for sex is wrong. Which is the AIBU. More single men go than single women but single women do go.

Well, the women are presumably doing all the things you assert most men go there to do. Beaches, culture, cuisine, history, retreats, etc.

That still doesn't account for all the people patronising the sex industry though, does it?

So there's lots of men and women doing similar stuff on holiday.

And some more men going for the sex industry.

So not most men. Because most single men and women are doing similar stuff. And then some other men are going for the sex.

Holly YABVFU in constantly banging on about offence to men over trivial statements when it is women who suffer from structural and societal oppression and men who benefit from the same.

I know lots of teachers. Male teachers predominantly are promoted above female teachers. In my close acquaintance (not as teachers of my DCs but friends and family) I know six female classroom teachers and two male head teachers. If you are trying to make a point about discrimination against men, teaching is not the profession to start with. Yes, there is sometimes a suspicion of men who work with children, but no, it does not affect those men in the same way that sexism affects women.

Holly I think I know you from a previous NC. Although we have not always agreed in the past, I really cannot believe what you are saying on this thread.

i agree about how pervasive the sex industry is

i think the difference is in some places it operates quite openly

thinking of where i grew up, there was a huge sex industry- many of the kids i knew growing up worked in it, some while they were kids. it was an open secret that everybody knows but nobody talks

this was in small town canada, not the light district of amsterdam

there was also definitely a racist element to it too

the men who paid were not sad ugly lonely men who just wanted company (some were). plenty of normal next door neighbour family men too.

i would also at any man who is 'revolted' by prostitutiin as that reaction strikes me as being deeply misogynist

god i will be blunt

bob, mike, steve, dave, jim, carol, susan, and karen all go to thailand on holiday to visit temples, eat great food, lie on the beaches etc.

bob and mike also intend on paying for sex. dave doesn't go with that intention, but hey, when in rome, right?

Holly you wanted facts/data.

Facts and data are that 10% of men in the UK have paid for sex.

When garlic did the math up thread she came up with a number of like 15 out of 130? Correct? Now I realize that's not quite 10% but it kind of tallies up doesn't it? Wouldnt you assume that if 10% of British men pay for sex that at least 10% would pay for sex in a country well known for it's sex trade?

I also recognize you form a previous nc (I think) and while you do strike me as a genuinely decent human I find it incredibly boring that so many threads turn in to the hollyshow.

It's a discussion you are welcome to cry what about the menz etc, but I think it's very unfair for you to continue to post about your feelings being hurt. Sexual exploitation hurts women, we are all hurt when men refuse to acknowledge it, you are promoting sexist bs. But we should all just calm down. You are using your privilege to have some sort of debate about how it's possible that men just really like beaches and that all the facts that posters have given you are irrelevant. And if anyone comments then you say how bad sexism is for you, and then slate posters on other threads and have said you were leaving and then come back and do it some more.

“In case there's any doubt on the matter, I am fucking enraged that any person would focus on poor menz right to make holiday choices in a discussion about industrial scale rape of women and children.”

Well that is not quite what is going on here is it, nobody is getting upset about ‘poor menz’ right to make holiday choices but some folk are finding it a bit tedious the rather blunt and crass way in which through dubious interpretation of stats you have labelled most men who visit a country with an abundance of attractions as dead cert sex tourists. As someone who has been to Thailand a few times both on my own and with a group of male friends where we all somehow managed not to rape women or small children I do find your views rather offensive and moronic and if that makes you ‘fucking enraged’ then tough shit. Again, nobody is denying that the sex industry in Thailand is very real with equally very real abuses, nobody is denying that the vast number of clientele who fuel this industry are men, however, that does not equate to most men travelling there being sex tourists.

Ah forget it, I shall take a leaf out of your book, next time I hear a middle aged women friend or work colleague telling me they are off to Jamaica, Kenya, Gambia, Senegal, Zanzibar or the Dominican republic I shall ignore their pleas that they are there for safaris, scuba diving, trekking, food, culture, music, turquoise oceans and white sand beaches and just assume they are looking for a bit of young cheap black cock.

By the way, constantly making women feel guilty for feeling that as women we are at a disadvantage is a silencing technique.

I saw your thread that you start about the M2F transgender person who had been put in the women's prison I dind't even bother posting on it because I knew how it would go and I didn't want the usual guilt trip because I believe women have a right to feel safe in places away from men.

there was a remembrance walk in my home town on friday for missing and murdered indigenous women

some of whom were working in the sex trade, but all of whom were victimised by the racist and colonialist tropes that the sex trade thrives and feeds on in my country

i can see parallels in how racism, colonialism and sexism are also at work in the sex industry in SE Asia, and here in this thread where the conversation has been frequently recentered around men, their experiences, their motivations etc.

Yes the other thread was very passive aggressive.

Honestly, from what you have said here, you don't understand sexism or misogyny. It is not just people being mean to you.

And I have noticed, that in spite of the implicatiosn being explained to you by me, you don't seem to care about the feelings of the women on this thread. But you expect us to care about yours?

CuChullain if you made that assumption, you would frequently be right.

CuChullain I don't care if you find my view offensive. Was that so hard to grasp from my previous post? Managing male egos of men I don't know is not my concern. In case it's not clear, I also don't care what you think about where a miniscule number of women take their holidays. Sex tourism is driven by men. It is a manifestation of male violence against women.

If someone goes to a ski resort, I assume they wil be skiing. If someone goes to a place renowned for sex tourism without a partner, I will assume they are going there for sex tourism.

Of course there are exceptions. But not as many as some in this thread seem to think. The reality is that the huge sexual exploitation industry in Thailand is there because so many men use it. If they didn't, it would die away.

And there is a reason locals tend to assume a single man in Thaliand is looking to buy someone to use for sex.

CuChullain did you really need to dehumanise the young people selling sex as 'young black cock'? the people who pay for it may see them that way, but why do we who discuss their lives have to reduce them to body parts?

grim.

Managing male egos of men I don't know is not my concern.

MNHQ, I'd quite like to nominate this for quote of the week

chibi - It says it all. Prostitution involves dehumanising people. Those who fight against sexual exploitation, would never do this. Those who don't care about it, do often dehumanise those involved in the sex industry

It's interesting how many men come on here to tell women how offended they are by women's statements of fact about male violence against women. We are expected to accommodate this offence and assure men that we don't mean them, we only mean the three-horned freaks that abuse and assault women. Except they are not three-horned freaks. We see them every day, they walk among us. I saw a lovely lesbian on twitter this week berate a small number of lesbians for having sex with underage girls. Have I ever seen a man do such a thing? (No, in case you are wondering.)

Thanks Veg

No flora and the fact that 1 out of 5 women are sexually assaulted every year?

That's that one nasty 3 horned bloke abusing all those women.

FloraFox

Wow, so me objecting at being assumed to be a sex tourist, rapist and abuser of children by dint of my holiday destination is casually dismissed as ‘managing the male ego’. Nice one.

if your first response to oppression and violence is 'not me!' or 'not all x do y' you need to rethink...a lot, actually

CuChullain you are prioritising your vapours over the industrial scale rape of women and children. Nice one.

Everything Chibi said. Twice.

WHERE'S MY FUCKING 'LIKE' BUTTON?

"chibi

if your first response to oppression and violence is 'not me!' or 'not all x do y' you need to rethink...a lot, actuallyally"

Well, when accused of being a sex tourist, rapist or abuser of young children when you are not you would think it is a fairly standard reaction.

This reminds me of some of Julie Bindle’s comment pieces in the Guardian, instead of perhaps starting an informative and engaging debate on a very serious subject matter using referenced data she instead makes a gross generalised assumption against half the worlds population based on nothing more than anecdotal evidence or dubious use of statistics. It is then no surprise that quite a few members of that group start to protest their innocence rather then discuss the topic to hand.