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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

In assuming most men going on holiday alone to Thailand, are going to have sex with prostituted women or men?

785 replies

Grennie · 15/02/2014 13:52

It is estimated that about 1% of Thailand's GDP is earned through sexual exploitation tourism.

In 2003 (the last year for which full figures are available) some 545,000 British residents arrived on visits. If you remove the children, and the British citizens visiting for business or reasons other than a holiday, you arrive at about 489,000—314,000 men and 175,000 women. That is 139,000 more British men than women coming to Thailand for a holiday—a gap of 28 per cent.

In no other international holiday destination, is there such a big difference in the number of women and men travelling there. There is no obvious reason for this apart from prostitution.

OP posts:
MorrisZapp · 18/02/2014 08:18

Of course the OP is right. It's a huge industry, used by thousands of men.

HollyMiamiFLA · 18/02/2014 08:19

Chibi

In my male days - trust me, I have had plenty of assumptions based about my sex made by women and men, been subject to words and attitudes by women -especially in the staffroom - that you would describe as sexist behaviour. Unwanted comments, behaviours, sexual innuendos and assumptions about what I could do and would do because I was a man.

So I have been subject to sexist behaviour which really upset me. Sexism works both ways.

HollyMiamiFLA · 18/02/2014 08:21

And if I had posted what happened to me and the things people said without saying my gender - people would have said that was sexism and urged me to post on Everyday sexism.

So that's not dismissing sexism against women - but it also works both ways and it can be really upsetting.

Original poster
Grennie · 18/02/2014 08:22

Holly, I don't know you at all. If you pass you will be treated by strangers as a woman. But if you don't, you will be treated by strangers as Trans. There is a difference.

OP posts:
Original poster
Grennie · 18/02/2014 08:23

What kind of thinsg were said to you then?

OP posts:
HollyMiamiFLA · 18/02/2014 08:24

Grennie

No - that was before I transitioned. So I was being treated as a man,
And it was sexist assumptions and comments by women.

FloraFox · 18/02/2014 08:25

Just to follow up because I will be away for a few hours, I utterly reject the idea of sexism against men in the same way I reject racism against white people. For this reason:

I could not give a single iota of a fuck about offence caused to men by women acknowledging male violence against women (including wholesale rape of women and children in a sexist and racist context) simply because they meet the minimum standards of human decency. To even bring forward such a thought to feminists discussing male violence against women is gaslighting and silencing, at best. In reality, it is deep-seated misogyny based on a notion that women must place their needs last and men's needs first (with children's second). Any man who puts his ego and sensitivities before the needs of those women and children fails at minimum standards of human decency and his trophy is forfeit.

In case there's any doubt on the matter, I am fucking enraged that any person would focus on poor menz right to make holiday choices in a discussion about industrial scale rape of women and children.

HollyMiamiFLA · 18/02/2014 08:26

Sexual comments, saying you're a man so you can do this, you must be good at football, comments on my appearance, criticising me for not eating my food all up and lots of assumptions about what I could do and what I could not do. Because I was a man. Lots of unwanted sexual innuendo. But I was supposed to enjoy all those comments?

JapaneseMargaret · 18/02/2014 08:27

I can't quite wrap my head around this thought that is trying to escape my brain, nor articulate it... Maybe somone can help me.

But it's something to do with the laughable irony of crying 'sexism!!' when the gender in question is behaving in a profoundly sexist way.

It's, apparently, more sexist/problematic to say 'most single men travelling alone to Thailand do so to avail of the sex industry' than it is to travel alone to Thailand to avail of the sex industry.

You couldn't make it up. Grin

HollyMiamiFLA · 18/02/2014 08:28

flora

I was responding to math comment about sexism. So no gaslighting. Just not ignoring a comment.

HollyMiamiFLA · 18/02/2014 08:31

2 different things.

But nice twisting words again.

They are behaving in a sexist way. Of course they are.

I am not sure of the AIBU. Either it's asking if it's AIBU to make an assumption about men or it's a discussion on the sex industry.

chibi · 18/02/2014 08:34

i nearly wrote unbelievable, but it is incredible believable, actually

a discussion about the huge sex industry in SE Asia, and we are constantly being redirected to discuss how unfair it is to make assumptions about male travellers, commiserate about how awful sexism is for men

this constant centering of men is bullshit and i reject it and its misogynist premise that in any discussion, how is impacts men is the most important or necessary

i also find incredible this pose that a transwoman is some kind of tiresias with an insider knowledge of what it is to be a man, and woman. hardly.

HollyMiamiFLA · 18/02/2014 08:34

And I have had to put up with a lot of assumptions about me that aren't true - especially when I was a "man" working in a primary school. And it's fucking hard when people assume things about you that aren't true and judge you based on their assumptions.

HollyMiamiFLA · 18/02/2014 08:35

So what's the AIBU about?

Is it an AIBU or should it be in chat?

MorrisZapp · 18/02/2014 08:37

I agree with FloraFox. Really, this huge industry exists but posters want to spend umpteen pages reminding us that not all men use it?

It's bizarre.

chibi · 18/02/2014 08:38

sexism is not 'people say shitty things to me'

sexism is 'the structural inequalities in society prevent me from having the same life chances as more privileged people and cause me real, tangible harm in terms of my health (mental and physical). and that also includes people saying shitty things to me'

source: dictionary of fucking obvious stuff

HollyMiamiFLA · 18/02/2014 08:38

So like I said - is it an AIBU or is it a Chat thread?

chibi · 18/02/2014 08:40

and now it's in the wrong talk category

do we have one for shit we can't discuss because it makes some people feel uncomfortable?

FreudiansSlipper · 18/02/2014 08:43

Oh dear thousands of women and children raped and exploited everyday but they are only Thai the real worry is that some western men might be assumed to have been involved when they are not how they must suffer

JapaneseMargaret · 18/02/2014 08:45

So what do you genuinely think then, Holly?

Would you say that most single men travelling to Thailand alone are not going there to have sex with prostituted women/children/men?

Is that what you're saying?

HollyMiamiFLA · 18/02/2014 08:45

AIBU to assume most men do something?
Or AIBU to want to discuss the sex industry in Thailand?

I am sure there are plenty of other reasons for the discrepancy. People have posted them but they've been ignored. Some people have PMd me saying they can't be bothered to post on here because of the prejudice.

I see no one actually bothered to discuss the sex industry when I stopped posting. So feel free to discuss it. I will stop posting and see how many people discuss it.

Or maybe the thread title doesn't ask people to discuss it?

ApricotExpat · 18/02/2014 08:46

I'm British but have lived in Asia for five years and recently moved to Phuket.

Third hand information is readily being spouted in this thread! I live 30 minutes drive from Patong and would choose to never visit, but I'm sure it's great fun if you're a teenager/early 20's!

Firstly, a 'farang' (foreigner) being involved with any drugs would result in jail.

Secondly, it's a shame to tarnish such a fantastic place with these sweeping remarks. I've lived in NYC too and found more 'ladyboys'/sexual attention there than I have ever done on the couple of occasions I've visited the south of Phuket!

Obviously, everyone's entitled to their own opinions. I never reply to these threads, but factually a lot if this is incorrect.

ApricotExpat · 18/02/2014 08:48

Ps - I should add my husband and I are here with children. There's a reason there are two superb international schools on the island. Not just children if prostitutes you'll be pleased to hear!'

HollyMiamiFLA · 18/02/2014 08:48

Frances

I do think that. I have no doubt that there are plenty of men who go there for sex. I have no doubt there are plenty of men who go there for the clubs but not for sex.

But men also go for holidays, beaches, tourism etc - just like the single women who also go there on holiday as well. Lots of single women go there as well - do they go there to do things that single men don't do?

There is a discrepancy. But that discrepancy does not automatically mean that most single men go for sex but most single women go there for other things. Otherwise - what are the single women doing that the single men aren't doing?

chibi · 18/02/2014 08:49

bonkers assertion. we were discussing it, you don't even have to scroll down far to see it Hmm

why are you so invested in silencing this topic?