In assuming most men going on holiday alone to Thailand, are going to have sex with prostituted women or men?

[Grennie]

It is estimated that about 1% of Thailand's GDP is earned through sexual exploitation tourism.

In 2003 (the last year for which full figures are available) some 545,000 British residents arrived on visits. If you remove the children, and the British citizens visiting for business or reasons other than a holiday, you arrive at about 489,000—314,000 men and 175,000 women. That is 139,000 more British men than women coming to Thailand for a holiday—a gap of 28 per cent.

In no other international holiday destination, is there such a big difference in the number of women and men travelling there. There is no obvious reason for this apart from prostitution.

in Floraland

vapours = objecting at being assumed to be a sex tourist, rapist and abuser of children

Nice one

where has anyone accused you? i could understand your response if they had.

again we are being asked to consider the feelings of some men who may have an assumption made about them, one that is not life changing over those of Thai women and children who are suffereing everyday

of course the feelings of men should be priority

lets start the debate again. it is so so sad, heartbreaking at times that some men will have an assumption made about them taking part in the sex industry when travelling alone or in a group to thailand. it weighs heavy on them and something they never shake off, the mental scars stay with them for life. oh yes some women and children in thailand are forced to sell their bodies for sex, because they have no choice oh well it is a sad world

is that better

i want to believe that, if i were to come upon someone suffering, my first reaction would be to respond to that suffering, usefully

rather than ensuring that everyone was aware that i did not personally have a hand in causing it first

this thread is a useful reminder and i will try to be mindful of this in my interactions with other humans

so despite all the rest of it thanks i guess

vapours = objecting at being assumed to be a sex tourist, rapist and abuser of children

No, you are putting words in to the OP's mouth.

She said most men.

If I heard an Asian person, say "am I wrong in assuming that most white people are somewhat racist^

I can argue till the cows come home that white people are never racist because I'm white and I'm not racist. I can totally ignore their personal real experience of racism because I know better. Or I can acknowledge that a fucking lot of white people are racist and continue to personally call out racism when I do see it.

CuChullain if you have actually been to Thailand, perhaps you might usefully speak about how best we can aid the plight of the women and children being raped daily by British men and how not to normalise that rape. Instead of making this all about you and your precious fucking feelings.

chibi

I have not been accused directly but indirectly, the constant insinuation, alluding to and general assumption on this thread that because I have visited Thailand on my own I must be assumed to be a sex tourist, rapist and abuser of children kind of makes one a bit defensive and reactionary.

A few on here trying to frame the debate into a single dichotomy whereby objecting to being assumed to be a sex tourist somehow means you condone or dont care about the industry is really piss weak.

My 19 year old nephew is off to Thailand in September, he is a keen rock climber, I have spent many enjoyable weekends through his teens tutoring him on rope and climbing techniques in Portland, N Wales and the Peak District. There was me thinking his trip would be an amazing experience climbing the world class limestone cliffs at Railey beach, alas, I have to accept that in all probability the climbing is just a pretense and he is there to rape women and children.

Boo fucking hoo. In case it's not obvious to you, most of your friends and relatives are about you holidaying in Thailand on your own. Your 19 yo nephew may be viewed differently than a middle aged man but it's not like there are no places to holiday or climb that are not also the centre of sex tourism for the entire universe.

Don't let the the mass rape of women and children put you or your nephew off your holiday though.

Flora

Off the top of my head the problems/solutions are as follows:

Poverty, sadly the gateway into prostitution, Thailand is still very poor in rural areas. Improving education and job opportunities offers alternative ‘choices’.
There does not seem to be any meaningful local policing on the matter, and I dare say what policing exists is manifestly corrupt with criminal gangs in cahoots with said policemen.
Lack of local political will, it is not seen as a serious problem, any occasional action is window dressing only to keep international observers relatively ‘happy’.
Greater cooperation is required between UK police and Thai authorities so that more sex crimes committed overseas can be prosecuted here, unfortunately this involves dealing with the corrupt police mentioned above.
Known sex offenders prevented from travelling
Greater awareness and education of the sex industry/trafficking offered to young men in the UK, many of whom still see it as a largely victimless crime or even worse, not a crime at all.
Name and shame convicted sex tourists in their local newspapers at home.

As I say the above is rattled out off the top of my head, I am sure others can contribute a lot more.

From what I saw the British did not make up a huge percentage of the ‘clients’, most seemed to be American, Chinese and Japanese men.

I think we need to vigorously prosecute men who travel abroad to sexually exploit and rape.

And they are not hard to find. Look at this review on Trip Advisor.

"if u looking for a hotel that is close to all the bar scene and have an interest in thai ladies :) then this is the hotel for u.there are a range of rooms for good and clean to downright not so greta, but a friendly smile at reception followed by a request to move please should normally get u a better room.if u a family then dont come to this hotel, if u on your honey moon dont come to this hotel, if u a single man looking for a good safe base in bangkok while sampling all the pleasures and pit falls of sin city then this place is definately for u."

www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g293916-d311439-r131162905-Nana_Hotel-Bangkok.html

Want to travel abroad and rape and sexually exploit local women and children, but can't be bothered organising your own accommodation and flights. Just book with firms like this, who will happily cater to your wishes.

www.pleasuretours.com/

It takes 2 seconds on google to find this. The truth is, nobody is doing anything about it.

Oh, and they also mention that you can play some golf as well.

"I think we need to vigorously prosecute men who travel abroad to sexually exploit and rape."

Surely we would start doing that in the UK first? Plenty of prostitutes and clients here.

Yes we should Aga, I agree

"In case it's not obvious to you, most of your friends and relatives are hmm about you holidaying in Thailand on your own. "

Quite possibly the most stupid thing I have read so far on this thread so far, speaks volumes about you though.

"Your 19 yo nephew may be viewed differently than a middle aged man but it's not like there are no places to holiday or climb that are not also the centre of sex tourism for the entire universe."

Are you seriously suggesting that because there is well established sex industry in Thailand the country should be boycotted as a holiday destination for single men? For the record Thailand is probably one of the top 5 world destinations for climbing and scuba diving, both those sports are overwhelmingly participated in by men.

"Don't let the the mass rape of women and children put you or your nephew off your holiday though."

It won't, its a beautiful country with lovely friendly people with a wealth of attractions, I would go back in an instant if I could, unlike you I can see both the positives and negatives of the place.

Single men can't choose their own holiday destination?

Ludicrous and quite frankly banal!

It's never going to happen is it? So suggest away.

I would think it highly likely that a 19 year old man travelling to Thailand without a wife/gf would end up having sex with prostituted women. Even if he was there primarily for the rock climbing/scuba diving.

That's the problem - the 'when in Rome' normalisation of the sex industry there.

I say this, of course, without know Cu's nephew. Perhaps he's one of the ones who won't - but plenty do. The sex industry there is being funded by more than a few horned interlopers.

I think in fact that a 19 year old man travelling to Thailand without a wife or gf is probably not going to have sex with prostitutes. But of course we can't know for sure.

My experience at that age was that there were plenty of 19 year old Westerners of both sexes getting together in backpacker joints and so on, and having sex with each other. Also I saw plenty of 59 year olds with Thai prostitutes, but younger men not really.

Also it's pretty fucking stupid and ignorant to say that a 19 yo rock climber shouldn't go to Thailand, and that there are plenty of other places to go. Well possibly, but only if your budget is unlimited, and if we are going to make generalizations then a 19 yo is unlikely to have much of one, and Thailand is likely the most affordable place to go.

I think we need to start teaching teenagers that humans are not for sale they are not there to be bought for ones pleasures from naked dancing across your lap to having sex

We need to rid this notion that men need to have sex and because of this need there is market to meet this need there is no need there is a desire

there will always be sex for sale but the sex industry is becoming so normalized it is frightening the truths of the vast majority suffering needs to be openly told to get into peoples conscience

Ive just read the blog post someone linked to upthread;

www.nomadicmatt.com/travel-blogs/why-sex-tourism-in-thailand-is-not-as-black-and-white-as-you-think/

I can't remember who linked it or, whether they linked it to give an example of the way some try to justify exploitation, or to 'prove' a point that it isn't all down to immoral westerners.

I found the bloggers views/attitude reprehensible. Ugh!

OP YANBU. I too would on hearing a man was holidaying alone in Thailand. I would assume the same as you.

I don't care if that offends some men who have travelled to that place for reasons other than 'sex tourism', the OP did say most men, not all men, so she isn't talking about you. Nothing to be offended about, this isn't about you.

I know one man who goes to Thailand regularly, he is heavily into Muay Thai. He goes to train, he stays there with Thai friends and takes his son when he can. If anyone made the assumption that he was going there for sex, it wouldn't last long.

My Dad used to work with a man that made two visits a year to Thailand, he would save up all his spare money for his visits, then go out there for a month. He went there so he could buy a girl for the week [girls not women] he was quite open about his intentions and argued that there was nothing wrong with it as it was 'normal over there' thats another aspect of it that is so fucked up, its seen as ok to do there, because its 'only Thai girls/women' and he wondered why no one liked him/wanted to sit and eat lunch with him.

So I know that not every man who goes there, goes for sex, but lots do, which is why the sex 'industry' is so huge there and that's why people make that assumption.

I would love to know what the correct response should have been on this thread.

And what we were all supposed to say and think?

Oh - and can someone give a list of where a single person is allowed to go on holiday without being judged for their destination?

Ireland is a fantastic place to go on holiday.

CuChulain
Are you seriously suggesting that because there is well established sex industry in Thailand the country should be boycotted as a holiday destination for single men?
You may have hit on a really good idea there.
The exploitation of women and children in Thailand's sex industry (or anywhere else) isn't going to stop until men stand up and condemn it.

How quickly would it all grind to a screeching halt if it were to be boycotted by men not accompanied by female partners?

Off the top of my head, I would say it would take only a few months.

I think if men really cared whether they were going to be seen as rapists they wouldn't go. The facts of life in Thailand are not unknown to men.

Went to Ireland last year on holiday, it was the worst holiday I'd ever hard.

Was January, mind, and we were staying with friends in a freezing peat-heated house.

The sex industry in Thailand is mainly for Thai men, but they get visitors from all over the world, the majority are from Asia. Western single men boycotting the country wouldn't even cause a blip.

I can think of a lot of countries with issues that should be boycotted. And things we buy from those countries as well.

That is not dismissing the sex industry:

China - because of its role in Tibet.
Indonesia, Vietnam, Bangladesh - and the exploitation in the clothes industry.
A lot of African countries because of their LGBT policies.